S04E06 – The Big Potential Of Being Better Together

Talking About Marketing Podcast by Steve Davis and David Olney

Explore "The Big Potential Of Being Better Together" As We Rethink Teamwork And Collaboration For Success, With A Star Trek Twist.

In this thought-provoking episode titled "The Big Potential of Being Better Together," we explore the profound impact of collaboration and collective effort across various facets of life, from personal relationships to professional environments. The episode weaves through different segments, each offering unique insights into how we can harness our collective potential to achieve greater outcomes.

In the Person segment, we delve into a fascinating discussion about communication and connection, inspired by an interview with Craig Haslam from Untamed Escapes. Craig's experiences illustrate the power of empathy and understanding in creating meaningful interactions, reminding us that effective communication often involves matching the emotional tone and energy of those we engage with.

Moving to the Principles section, we focus on Shawn Achor's influential book, "Big Potential," which advocates for the idea that success is not achieved in isolation. Achor's concept that "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts" resonates deeply, highlighting that businesses and individuals thrive not by focusing on star performers but through a constellation of contributors working harmoniously.

In our Problems segment, we address practical challenges associated with modern AI tools, providing a useful hack for enhancing interactions with technologies like ChatGPT. This discussion not only sheds light on the evolving capabilities of AI but also offers tips on how to ensure these tools meet our expectations and needs effectively.

Finally, the Perspicacity segment takes us on an unexpected journey into the world of Star Trek, drawing parallels between the series' themes and our episode's central message. The collaborative dynamics between characters like Spock and Captain Kirk serve as a metaphor for the episode's overarching theme: embracing diversity of thought and approach to overcome challenges and achieve common goals.

Throughout the episode, the recurring theme is clear: whether in the depths of space or within the confines of our daily interactions, we achieve more together than we ever could alone. By fostering environments where collaboration and collective action are prioritised, we can unlock our 'big potential' and pave the way for a more connected and productive future.

Get ready to take notes!

Talking About Marketing podcast episode notes with timecodes

01:37  Person  This segment focusses on you, the person, because we believe business is personal.

Communicate Clearly With Passion And You Can Help The Blind See

In the Person segment, we reflect on a powerful interview from The Adelaide Show Podcast with Craig Haslam from Untamed Escapes, who shares his profound experiences conducting tours across Australia. Craig's story brings to life the essence of being a super communicator, a concept we've discussed in relation to Charles Duhigg’s insights. His ability to match the emotional tone and energy levels of those he interacts with provides a real-world example of effective communication.

The highlight of the segment is Craig's account of guiding a legally blind man across the Nullarbor. By vividly describing the scenery, Craig's colleague enabled his guest to 'see' through his other senses, notably enhanced by the enthusiasm and vivid descriptions provided. This anecdote beautifully illustrates how genuine enthusiasm and empathy can transform experiences, making them memorable and impactful.

As we discuss these themes, we're reminded of the importance of being fully present in our interactions. In today’s world, where distractions are rife, the ability to engage wholly and attentively with those around us is both rare and invaluable. It’s about creating moments that matter, whether in tourism, hospitality, or any sector that relies on human-to-human connection.

This episode serves as a gentle reminder of the power of presence and the profound impact it can have on both our lives and the lives of those we interact with.

07:45  Principles  This segment focusses principles you can apply in your business today.

Constellations Are Brighter Than Stars: Unlocking Big Potential

In the Principles segment, we delve into the potent insights from Shawn Achor's book, "Big Potential," which argues convincingly that we flourish most when we work together rather than in isolation. The core message is that success in business—and indeed in any collective endeavour—is best achieved not through individual stardom but through a collaborative constellation of efforts.

David Olney expands on Achor's perspective by invoking the timeless wisdom that "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts." He explains that Achor's work goes beyond mere theory by drawing from his extensive consultancy experience with high-stress environments like Fortune 500 companies and the US military. This background lends credibility to Achor's strategies, making them not just theoretically sound but practically proven in some of the most demanding contexts.

Achor's approach, as outlined in our discussion, emphasises empowering those around us as a pathway to collective achievement. This empowerment fosters an environment where the team's collective journey transcends individual capabilities, echoing the sentiment that if you want to go fast, go alone, but if you want to go far, go together.

We also discuss the SEEDS model from Achor's book, which encapsulates key strategies for fostering an environment of mutual support and shared success:

  • Surround: Encourage positive influences within teams.
  • Expand: Empower others to lead and contribute.
  • Enhance: Recognise and celebrate each other’s contributions.
  • Defend: Protect teams from negative influences.
  • Sustain: Maintain momentum and foster a continuously positive environment.

This model underscores the importance of creating a culture where everyone feels valued and where their contributions lead to shared victories. The principles discussed here are not just abstract ideals but actionable strategies that can transform the way we work and interact.

In a world that often glorifies the lone achiever, "Big Potential" serves as a crucial reminder of the power of collective action and shared goals. It challenges us to rethink how we define success and encourages you to consider how much more we can achieve together.

21:41  Problems  This segment answers questions we've received from clients or listeners.

Who's A Good AI?

In the Problems segment, we dive into the evolving landscape of artificial intelligence and its applications in everyday tasks like writing letters or composing blog posts. The focus is on a practical hack for interacting with AI tools like ChatGPT to ensure the output meets your expectations.

Steve Davis introduces a simple yet effective method for enhancing your interactions with AI: before assigning any specific task, ask the AI to detail what it knows about the topic. This preliminary step not only gauges the AI’s current knowledge base but also helps identify any gaps that might affect the quality of its responses. By doing so, you can discern whether the AI is likely to provide accurate and relevant information or if it might need additional input to perform effectively.

This approach mirrors traditional research methods where verifying the credibility and depth of sources is crucial before their integration into your work. By applying this method to AI, you ensure that the tool is adequately informed and prepared to handle your requests accurately. It also allows you to tailor your prompts more effectively, supplying the AI with necessary context or directing your research to supplement its knowledge.

24:32  Perspicacity  This segment is designed to sharpen our thinking by reflecting on a case study from the past.

Balance Your Spock With Your Kirk

In the Perspicacity segment, we boldly go where no marketing podcast has gone before, venturing into the Star Trek universe. This exploration isn't just about space travel; it delves into the intricate dynamics of human interaction and leadership that the iconic series so masterfully portrays.

The segment starts with a playful nod to the perennial mix-up between Star Trek and Star Wars, setting the stage for a deeper analysis of Star Trek’s ethos. Here, the crew of the Enterprise epitomises a future where logic and passion are not adversaries but allies, showcased through the complementary dynamics of Spock's cool logic and Captain Kirk's fiery passion. Their synergy demonstrates how diverse approaches to life can coexist and collectively enhance decision-making.

David Olney draws insightful parallels between the crew's successful collaborative model and Shawn Achor’s principles of optimism and teamwork. Much like the Enterprise thrives on cooperation and leveraging individual strengths, Achor's work suggests that real-world success often hinges on collective effort, where varied talents and viewpoints unite to surmount challenges.

The discussion invites us to ponder whether a society built on mutual respect, collaboration, and understanding can endure amidst modern-day polarisation and societal divides. It challenges us to reflect on our societal constructs and the potential for positive transformation through unity.

By the end of our trek through Star Trek's narrative, we're left with a thought-provoking question about the sustainability of such an optimistic model of human existence. Can the Star Trekian vision of teamwork and mutual respect help us navigate the "final frontier" of contemporary societal challenges?

As we consider this, let's remember the Star Trek maxim, "Infinite diversity in infinite combinations." Symbolising the belief that strength comes through diversity, this philosophy could be just what we need to bridge divides and foster collaboration in today’s world.

So, grab an old copy of Star Trek, invite a diverse friend over, and rediscover the power of connection—because, in the words of Spock, "Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end." And sometimes, a little human touch can make all the difference in the galaxy.

Transcript  This transcript was generated using Descript.

A Machine-Generated Transcript - Beware Errors


[00:00:00] Caitlin Davis: Talking About Marketing is a podcast for business owners and leaders, produced by my dad, Steve Davis, and his colleague at Talked About Marketing, David Olney, in which they explore marketing through the lens of their own four P's, person, principles, problems, and perspicacity. Yes, you heard that correctly.

Apart from their love of words, they really love helping people, so they hope this podcast will become a trusted companion on your journey in business.

[00:00:40] Steve Davis: David, would you rather that I said to you, Mr Olney, you are a star, or Mr Olney, you've got big potential?

[00:00:52] David Olney: I'd be happy with both. Because they're kind of contextual. If you tell me I'm a star, I'm going to imagine that I'm in a sky full of stars and I'm not the only one. And it doesn't mean like I've got a bigger ego, more brightness than anyone else.

It's just nice being up there amidst all the other stars. If you tell me I've got big potential, I'm going to think much the same thing of, yeah, but now what am I actually going to do with it? Because there's other people out there who actually use their potential.

[00:01:19] Steve Davis: Hmm. So, you're a bit 50 50, but I think you're leaning towards being a star, I think, if I read between the lines.

Yeah, because I like the idea of a sky full of stars. And so does our feature author, who we'll be getting stuck into later this episode.

[00:01:40] Caitlin Davis: Our four Ps. Number one, Person. The aim of life is self development, to realise one's nature perfectly. That is what each of us is here for. Oscar Wilde.

[00:01:57] Steve Davis: We've started raiding the Adelaide Show podcast every now and then for little snippets because they just seem to keep overlapping some of the things we're talking about, David. I don't know what is behind that. Could it be that I'm the common link? It could be, or it could be that the important things in the world just keep reoccurring.

Well, that's true. In fact, I think you just nailed it. So, episode 393 of the Adelaide Show has a great moment for the person segment, as we reflect on how we can thrive and survive as humans in our relationships and businesses, and it was an interview I did with Hazy, Craig Haslam. He has Untamed Escapes, that's the name of his company.

He does, um, basically tours, uh, across the Nullarbor, uh, Uh, there are backpacker tours, there are the mid range ones, and then there are the completely bespoke, uh, top of the range private charters. Uh, Nullarbor, up to the top of the Northern Territory, Kangaroo Island, across WA, he spends a lot of time out on the road.

He's wears many hats within the tourism sector because it's just in his blood and When he was saying what we're about to listen to you in The recording of this I had one of those moments when I went. Oh my goodness We just covered this in talking about marketing. We were talking about super communicators Charles Duhigg and how the key to To being a great communicator, a great person to connect to is, you're someone who can note and match the emotional tone and the energy level of the person you're communicating with.

With that in mind, have a listen to this.

[00:03:49] Craig Haslam: I took a legally blind person, sorry I didn't, that's a lie. I met a legally blind person at my place, my guide, a lad called Stephen Finch, an amazing tour was taking him across the Nullarbor. He got to the Head of the Byte, my favourite place. He was legally blind. He'd been legally blind, like, for a long time, and Finchie had looked after him all the way.

Got him to the Head of the Byte, and they stood outside, and Finchie articulated what he was seeing. The man had his hand on Finchie's shoulder, and he's saying, Wow, this is amazing. And, and, and Finchie said, and I remember him telling me, How can you think it's amazing, he said. It's really easy, I smell it, I feel it, but I hear the enthusiasm in other people's voices.

[00:04:37] Steve Davis: There you go, David. Is that, or is that not, Charles Duhigg's observation happening on the edge of the Great Australian Bight?

[00:04:50] David Olney: I really like it because it fits so well with Charles Duhigg and something I've been so aware of my whole life being blind. And that is, if someone tells me a story about a place, And their tone and their energy is just wow and excited.

It's infectious. And I kind of learned that lesson, you know, things I couldn't do but other people did, going, I understand what that was like, not because I've done it, but because I understand the effect it's had on the person. And it's just great to hear an example, you know, of a tour operator tapping in so deeply to what makes people tick.

to help people have amazing experiences.

[00:05:33] Steve Davis: And it wasn't rocket science. No. And that was the message that came through. That's why I loved having Hassie because he really embodies that, messy is not quite the right word, but that human to human interaction aspect of what tourism and hospitality is all about.

And I was telling my girls about this and I, I actually thought, you know what, it shouldn't just be in tourism and hospitality, we should be striving for this no matter what our task or job or relationship is, because what would it be like to live a life not being 100 percent present and wanting to be there?

I would, I think that would be a definition of hell.

[00:06:22] David Olney: Just think of all the people who are looking down at their phone as they walk around, or the people having a meal where everyone at the table is looking at their phone while eating, rather than talking to the people at the table. So many people, even if we just call it a form of purgatory, an awful lot of people are in the purgatory of not being present.

And any reminder to be present, any gentle nudge that we can give people to be present, makes the day better for everyone.

[00:06:50] Steve Davis: Yeah, I, I would say personally, it just gives me more energy, uh, to just try, and it's not, I'm not perfect at it at all by a long stretch, but when I am there, gee, it's a great place to be.

So for the person segment for this episode, it's just a light one just to reinforce that some of the things we talk about from these books actually happen instinctively out there and the books, the reading, the reflection is all about being able to notice it when it happens and in hopefully in the case of of Charles Duhigg and this insight to be able to recreate the dynamic so that we get, and the person we're connecting to, get the benefit of those insights.

[00:07:45] Caitlin Davis: Our four P's. Number two, principles. You can never be overdressed or over educated. Oscar Wilde.

[00:07:59] Steve Davis: In the principles section of this episode, we are focusing on a book called Big Potential by Shawn Achor. Interesting book. If I was to summarise it, David, I would say that Sean's main message is, we, as humans, are better together. Not alone, and I do like a saying he refers to often that the businesses that thrive are the businesses that don't have a star performer that they all worship, but they have a constellation of people who are all doing their bit together and know that their value Primarily comes, and they're great success, from being part of a constellation.

Do you want to pick up some of that and reflect on Sean's insights?

[00:08:54] David Olney: Absolutely. So really, the old line that we probably all heard as children, that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. That's really where Shawn Achor is coming from. And he's great because he's not saying that any of us should not strive to achieve.

But the part of striving to achieve should be how can I empower the people around me? How can I empower my team? Because the better we can all do, the further we can go together. And it's the classic line from Silicon Valley. If you want to travel fast, go on your own. If you want to travel far, take your friends.

So there's been so many variations of these lines. The great thing with Shawn Achor is, He's just not talking about these as nice ideas. He's that interesting person who did brilliantly at Harvard, brilliantly in his PhD, and then instead of becoming a research academic, running experiments on 18 year old first years, he went out and set up a consultancy, and worked with Fortune 500 companies in America and the US military to help people in the US.

in their actual day to day tasks to do better and support each other better. And I trust his data a lot more than I trust most data from positive psychologists, because his data comes from people under huge amounts of stress in situations where it is very often not safe to fail. So the answers that hold in crucibles You know, like the seals getting ready to deploy again, a company releasing a new product, knowing if they get it wrong, that's the end of the company.

These are the people that Sean has learned from and tested ideas with. And, you know, a lot of people love Martin Seligman, a lot of people love, you know, Angela Duckworth, um, you know, with her book Grit. Really I'll take Shawn over either of them because his example is always a practical one that I can explain to a client.

And the client goes, that's not just a pointless abstract thing from the academy. That's a tangible example from the world that Sean has explained so well, I know how to apply it here and now. And that's immensely valuable to be able to take big ideas and apply them here and now. A

[00:11:16] Steve Davis: couple of quick things.

One is the SEEDS model that he talks about. And so SEEDS stands for, uh, the first S is for Surround. How leaders should surround themselves with positive influences who can offer support and drive collective success. And you and I have been talking about that. You need Good people around you, and just having even one person who is a bad egg or drenched in negativity, it can spoil the batch, can't it?

[00:11:46] David Olney: It's so disruptive, like if you're dealing with someone who lives in a world of the consistency of misery, where their mission is to make everything as bad as yesterday, because they can survive that. What they can't survive is the unknown. Very

[00:12:01] Steve Davis: hard to deal with. The next E, well the first E is for expand.

Expanding potential involves empowering others to lead and contribute. So this is a key thing. He wants us all to trust those people around us to do some things, to be constructive, to have a say in how things go forward, yeah?

[00:12:25] David Olney: Yeah, it's really Either sort of Erz, you know, Koenig's idea of radical humility, or um, Jocko Willink's idea of extreme ownership.

They're really just two sides of the same coin. The biggest thing you can do is empower your people to do brilliantly without you. Because if they can do brilliantly without you, then you can empower the next person. But you also always have to be there, that if they get stuck or they have a problem, or they encounter something that's beyond their empowerment, that they can ask for help and feel safe doing it.

You jump in, but you don't do it for them, you do it with them. And at the end, they're more empowered again. You've learnt more, they've learnt more, they get on with it, you go help someone else. But the raft keeps rising, and the more the raft rises, the higher the water gets.

[00:13:14] Steve Davis: Interesting. And then the second E is Enhance.

He talks about enhancing resources by becoming prisms of praise, recognizing and celebrating the achievements of others. Some great stories in his book around this, and one of them are some, um, baseball and basketball coaches who don't give trophies out for the most valuable player. They actually have changed the culture of their clubs to Acknowledge the assists, those people who set it up for other team members to understand that we thrive as a team.

I thought there was a great one. One coach said he will often watch the players on the field, but he puts his eye across the people on the bench. If they are zoned out and not watching the game, they will never get game time. He wants it. Everyone on his team to be aching and caring about everyone else on the team now That's pretty darn powerful.

Can you imagine a business running like that? Hmm.

[00:14:14] David Olney: I've only really seen it in military context Yeah, and it's it's a bit disappointing to me that You only see, well, I've only experienced this in elite military context, and I've only read about it in books like this about high end sport. But the great thing with Sean's books is you can always take the ideas, and he helps you work out how to filter them back into the normal.

So it's not to say we can't use these things, it's just they're not getting used enough, which is why he writes books like this.

[00:14:42] Steve Davis: The D from SEEDS is DEFEND, about leaders having to defend their teams from negative influences, and to do that by creating a positive, resilient culture, helping people with strategies for building mental fortitude, etc.

And then the last S is SUSTAIN. So, studying the gains is about maintaining momentum, continuously fostering a positive environment. That should really never end.

[00:15:09] David Olney: No, and that's one of the hardest things to get people to understand as a consultant, is you come in and you help them and things get better.

And it's really hard to explain, yep, we did a lot in a short period, but how are you going to lock it in? And if you can't lock it in on your own, and you need help, let's talk about that now, because by the time you realise what's been achieved is starting to fray or fail, well that's already some lost ground.

Why do we want to lose ground, if instead we can lock the gains in and keep the momentum up? You know, it's that wonderful example in, you know, the book of, things will keep moving in the direction they're moving, well as long as there's still a force moving them. If anything disrupts them, they change direction or they stop.

If you want something to keep doing what it's doing, you have to add force to maintain its momentum.

[00:16:01] Steve Davis: And so that's the SEEDS model. And then the other thing I just wanted to touch on, uh, in this book, is if we think of those classic Uh, thrillers, espionage, spy thrillers, uh, super police things, where they're working on a big case, they're doing some amazing work, and they discover they have a rat.

There is someone leaking information, spoiling all their effort. Here we are. We might have every bit of our being focused on creating that wonderful work culture, we're embracing the model. The people we're working with are, he would argue, That, that little thing that's going to undo us all is personally our use of social media.

It is the thing that can sink many ships. Let's have a listen to the way he puts it.

[00:16:59] Shawn Achor: By clinging to the old formula for success, we are leaving enormous amounts of potential untapped. 12 years at Harvard as I watched students crash upon shoals of hyper competition, then get stranded on the banks of self doubt. Realizing that they were no longer the only superstar, many panicked. They pushed themselves harder, sequestering themselves so they could go faster, trying to be the brightest light shining.

The result was darkness. A staggering 80 percent of Harvard students report going through depression at some point in their college life. Now that I've done this work all over the globe, I'm I know that this is not a problem reserved for Ivy League students. The average age of being diagnosed with depression in 1978 was 29.

In 2009, the average age was 14 and a half. Over the past decade, depression rates for adults have doubled, as have hospitalizations for attempted suicide for children as young as 8 years old. What could possibly have changed so much to account for this? And more important, what can we do to fix it? Our emphasis on individual achievement has gone into serious overdrive, fueled primarily by two significant shifts.

First, the rise of technology and social media allows us to broadcast individual accomplishments 24 7, constantly feeding competition while simultaneously stoking insecurity. The astronomical pressure and competition in our schools and companies in pursuit of higher individual success metrics are driving longer days, less sleep and more stress.

Luckily, a better way has begun to emerge.

[00:19:09] Steve Davis: Until I'd read this book, David, you know how I have a love hate relationship with social media, and I carry some responsibility. I ran the first social media marketing workshops in South Australia in 2005, so I've been partly responsible for this. The way that it sits within the context of this book is it does feel like you're working on this wonderful ship.

And then social media comes along and shoves a big stick through your hull that creates a leak that you're going to have to put some resources to keeping out the negative effects. It's really powerful.

[00:19:47] David Olney: Yeah, and this is one of these things. We keep revisiting this paradox of social media. It's meant to be social, but it's mainly corrosive.

And we need a better form, but we don't know what it is. And in a future episode, we're probably going to talk about Jonathan Haidt's new book, you know, Anxious Generation, where he's arguing, you know, young people shouldn't have social media until they're at least 16, so it doesn't do damage to their brain.

So really, the fact that Sean wrote his book in 2018, he really had drawn his line in the sand. You know, six years before the evidence confirmed he's absolutely right. He had enough anecdotal evidence and ran with it. And yeah, anything that diminishes people's sense of well being and connectedness by putting them in the competitive environment of outboasting each other.

Social media is a very strange place because it should be good, but sadly it just isn't at the moment. No,

[00:20:45] Steve Davis: and you're definitely right. We will come back to the Jonathan Haidt book and also the 8020. Yeah, Richard Koch. I think they're going to be the next two episodes we'll be touching on those because they link to one other quick quip that Sean talks about.

He says, you know, We're undermined by this social media thing, and we start feeling burned out, and we feel like the answer is to work harder. And he said that's not the case, and I think we'll let the 80 20 book pick up the slack on that when we come back to it. Until then though, I must say, David, in hindsight, with everything you've just shared, and the opening comments of this program, I think beyond big potential, you are a star.

You are a star.

[00:21:30] David Olney: Yeah, in a constellation of stars. Oh, yeah, that's the only way I like the comment. Well, twinkle twinkle, lots of stars.

[00:21:41] Caitlin Davis: Our four Ps. Number three, problems. I asked a question for the best reason possible. Simple curiosity. Oscar Wilde.

[00:21:55] Steve Davis: In this problem segment, I want to quickly turn our attention back to AI and the use of tools like ChatGPT with a little hack that I picked up from some people in the know, and it comes down to this. If you are giving your AI bot a task and you're not quite getting the results you're hoping for, they said, try this.

Load up your prompt. You might have a letter you need it to write, a blog post, whatever it might be. You're asking it to do a particular task. Here's the thing. Give them the prompt and say, before you write anything, can you please tell me what you know? about this topic and you hit enter and you wait to see what they say or it says because Sometimes, it knows absolutely nothing, and they're getting better at saying, I don't know.

Uh, some of the older models will just hallucinate and make up absolute crap. I actually missed those days. I loved it when hallucination was pretty much the mainstay of it. Or, it might actually bring a lovely layout. of knowledge to this whole, uh, area of Ask It To Do, and you go, well, you actually know a little bit more than I do, thank you very much.

Now go ahead and complete the task. But that little hack of asking it first can mean, okay, you've got to go away and do some research to feed it to me. Or, make your prompt more complex to give it some of that information.

[00:23:31] David Olney: Uh, have you used this hack, David? It's funny when you describe the hack. I've never used it, but it reminds me of, you know, what you learn when you're doing advanced research in university.

And that is, if you find a new idea by someone, find out what they've written about before, find out where the ideas come from, find out what they link to. So you go away, and you go away. and prove they know what they're talking about. So that you can, you know, use their bit of work as a footnote, as a reference.

So this is a wonderful spin on that. And like you, lately, I've just been getting good answers. So I haven't, for the last couple of months, had to go, what do I do when it goes really, really hallucinatory? Because I haven't had a hallucinatory moment, I think, since about January.

[00:24:17] Steve Davis: Yeah, no, I think it's improving scarily, and still being helpful if you keep it on a tight leash.

But anyway, there's something to try next time you're chatting with your bot.

[00:24:32] Caitlin Davis: Our four Ps, number four, Perspicacity. The one duty we owe to history is to rewrite it. Oscar Wilde. David, I'd

[00:24:44] Steve Davis: like to finish this episode. By boldly going where no marketing podcast has gone before. To the realms of Star Trek. Because we were talking about big potential in stars and constellation, I thought, what a great excuse to reflect on the Star Wars franchise.

[00:25:09] David Olney: Wash your mouth out with soap. You've conflated Star Trek and Star Wars. The Trekkies are going to be having conniptions. What did I just say? You said the Star

[00:25:17] Steve Davis: Wars. Oh, did I? Oh, there you go. Well, look, um, because I'm not Spock, I am flawed. So the star So is he, by only being logical. And there is the key point of the program.

That is the key point we're just coming to. Um, so we've prematurely revealed, uh, where we're heading with this, but I think it's worth, I'm going to leave this in, I'm not editing a thing out. Star Trek franchise. Uh, what happens in Star Trek? The whole ecosystem is that it's based at a time where. Humans seem to have embraced, at least on the Star Trek Enterprise, this way of living which has the clarity of pure logic in assessing situations with some of the, uh, The, the, the passion, the blood, of the Captain, Captain Kirk, and instead of cancel culturing each other out, or completely blocking the other one, the two main characters, Spock for logic, and Kirk for heart, tend to work together, they find a way to collaborate together to get through a situation.

Is that a fair summary of the world of Star Trek?

[00:26:40] David Olney: I think it is, and as you've been explaining it, I sort of took it further and started linking it to Sean Acor. If we think about it, you know, the engineer Scotty will always find a way. So in him, we have implicit optimism based on competence. You know, I'm confident I can get this done, I'll say yes and we'll find a way.

On the other hand, we have, you know, McCoy the doctor, who is a real cynic, but at the same point will do the work. So we have an optimist who will do the work, and a cynic who will do the work. So really if you look at the construction, that we have intense logic, fairly hot passion in Kirk. You know, really solid, you know, active optimism, and the cynicism in McCoy that doesn't overwhelm his ability to function.

What an inspiring combination of contrasts. I won't say paradoxes because they're not paradoxes, they're just contrasts. But you put those four things together and then have a range of interesting characters around them, and it's no wonder that relatively cerebral sci fi You know, without, you know, that much cool effects in the original series, and it's not as over the top or violent or, you know, unusual as other series, still attracts people to this day, and sucks them into this idea of, this is maybe the way to be.

Humans moving forward.

[00:28:13] Steve Davis: It is a pretty positive snapshot. An aspirational snapshot, dare I say it.

[00:28:25] Star Trek Scene: Come.

My report on Lieutenant Riley, will he make it? He's got a good chat. Can we predict the same for you captain? All right, Mr. Spock, let's have it. Lieutenant Riley was a witness. So were you.

All right. Someone tried to kill him. Could have been an accident. You should be told the difference between empiricism and stubbornness, doctor. I checked with the library computer, just as you did. I got the same information. Aren't you getting a little out of line, Mr. Spock? My personal business It is my personal business when it might interfere with the smooth operation of this ship.

You think that happened? It could happen. I don't like anyone meddling in my private affairs, not even my second in command. Jim, Spock's simply trying to I know what he's trying to do and I don't like it. It's his job, and you know it.

And you also know that nothing is proven. Even in this corner of the galaxy, Captain, 2 plus 2 equals 4. Almost certainly an attempt will be made to kill you. Why do you invite death? I'm not. I'm interested in justice. Are you? Are you sure it's not vengeance? No, I'm not sure. I wish I was.

I've done things I've never done before. I've placed my command in jeopardy. From here on, I've got to determine whether or not Coridian is CODIS. He is. You sound certain. I wish I could be. Before I accuse a man of that, I've got to be. I saw him once, 20 years ago. Men change. Memory changes. I look at him now, he's an actor.

It'll change his appearance. No. Logic is not enough. I've got to feel my way. Make absolutely sure. What if you decide to use Kos, what then do you play? God carry his head through the courts and triumph. That won't bring back the dead, Jim. No, but they may rest easier.

[00:30:51] Steve Davis: And so here's the question from the per per cassity perspective. Do we see this as a sustainably attractive model of human existence, given we're just about to have America go back into Trumpistan for another period, we're going to see the acute polarization, uh, that we have in the USA, also embodied in the UK, uh, Australia to a degree.

And other parts around the world, this sort of black and whitening of discourse with barriers in between. Do you think we'll, we, the appetite for the Star Trekian optimism can survive this next period of human history?

[00:31:45] David Olney: I think it can for the reason that all the characters are flawed. But as a group, they overcome through collective action.

Their flaws don't define them to such an extent that it undoes their capacity to work effectively with everyone else. So, the irony is it comes out of 1960s America, this highly individualistic culture, and yet what it says is you can be you, but we'll get done more together than we could individually.

And surely if there is a way back from extreme polarization, it is re learning collective action. And, you know, so many authors, we read talk about that. It's a large point of what Sean Achor is talking about when we talk about Jonathan Haidt's new book. You know, he's talking about the only way we're going to solve the problems of technology and social media is to make it a collective action problem.

So, our biggest problem today He's not people like Trump. He's a symptom of a lack of collective action. Because if we acted collectively, would we allow something so extreme to have such big consequences?

[00:32:54] Steve Davis: And so from a business perspective, an organization, a small business, perhaps if we're feeling Overwhelmed or stuck or we're feeling like we're hitting a brick wall.

There's probably some use in grabbing an old copy of Star Trek and watching it. It's reflecting on that model of existence to say, you know what? We don't all have to be the same. The common thread there is the common thread of decency and openness to understand that we are actually better together than Yeah,

[00:33:32] David Olney: find that copy, and then invite someone over you haven't talked to for a couple of months, who is different to you, but you know you'll have fun.

Having a pizza, a bottle of red, and watching some cool old TV. Like, remind yourself that connectedness is always the best way

[00:33:49] Steve Davis: forward. That's actually a really good idea to do something like that. You could actually say that that is human dynamics, Jim. Thanks, Jim. But not as we know it. I like it.

[00:34:02] Caitlin Davis: Thank you for listening to Talking About Marketing.

If you enjoyed it, please leave a rating or a review in your favourite podcast app. And if you found it helpful, please share it with others. Steve and David always welcome your comments and questions, so send them to podcast at talkedaboutmarketing. com. And finally, the last word to Oscar Wilde. There's only one thing worse than being talked about, and that's not being talked about.

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