Discover how precise market targeting and impactful communication can transform your small business, alongside critiques of outdated marketing tactics and nostalgic ads.
In this episode of Talking About Marketing, Steve Davis and David Olney explore the critical factors shaping small business success in today's challenging landscape.
They begin by discussing the importance of structured, meaningful conversations and how they can drive better customer engagement and business outcomes.
The episode then delves into the fundamentals of effective marketing, emphasising the need for precision in targeting your market and offering solutions that truly resonate.
A light-hearted critique of a poorly executed marketing email offers a stark reminder of the importance of genuine engagement.
Finally, the duo takes a nostalgic look at retro advertising, reflecting on how marketing tactics must evolve to stay relevant.
Get ready to take notes!
Talking About Marketing podcast episode notes with timecodes
01:30 Person This segment focusses on you, the person, because we believe business is personal.
Structured Conversations for Meaningful Engagement
In this episode's "Person" segment, Steve Davis and David Olney explore the significance of structured conversations in both personal and professional settings. Using a conversation between Jerry Seinfeld and Bill Maher as a springboard, they delve into why structured interactions can be more fulfilling and productive than aimless chatter, particularly in business contexts.
Steve shares a perspective he resonated with from Seinfeld: the idea that working together on something—whether it's an interview, a podcast, or a project—adds value to interactions that casual socialising may lack. This sentiment is echoed in Steve's own approach to podcasting and interviews, where he finds energy and learning in the semi-structured nature of these exchanges. He points out that people often behave differently in structured settings, listening more intently and engaging more deeply because there's a clear purpose to the conversation.
David expands on this by highlighting the comfort and safety that structure brings to conversations. He notes that having a framework not only helps participants understand the flow and expectations but also makes the dialogue more meaningful and less nerve-wracking. This is particularly relevant in a business setting, where customers may approach with disorganised thoughts, seeking clarity. A structured approach allows the service provider to guide the conversation effectively, helping the customer articulate their needs and ensuring the interaction is productive.
The takeaway from this discussion is the value of bringing some level of structure to conversations, especially in business. While casual, unstructured chats have their place, adding a purpose or framework to an interaction can enhance the quality of the dialogue, making it more engaging and beneficial for all parties involved. For business owners and leaders, being mindful of this can improve customer interactions and lead to more successful outcomes.
10:15 Principles This segment focusses principles you can apply in your business today.
The Power of Niche Marketing: Inch Wide, Mile Deep
In the "Principles" segment, Steve Davis and David Olney explore the key insights from Allan Dib’s book, Lean Marketing, which has deeply resonated with them, particularly the idea of targeting a specific market niche. They discuss the first principle from the book—selecting your target market—and how honing in on a narrow, yet deep, audience can significantly enhance marketing effectiveness.
Steve and David introduce the concept of an “inch wide and a mile deep” target market, emphasizing that while it might seem limiting to focus on a small, specialized audience, this depth of understanding allows businesses to meet the precise needs of their customers, leading to greater success. They explain that by truly knowing a niche market, businesses can position themselves as the go-to solution for specific problems, which builds confidence and authority in that space.
The discussion then moves to the idea of marketing products as “vitamins” versus “painkillers.” Vitamins are nice-to-have, optional supplements, whereas painkillers address urgent, pressing needs that consumers are willing to pay for immediately. The key takeaway here is that businesses should strive to offer solutions that address their customers' most critical pain points, thus transforming their product or service into an essential need rather than a mere luxury.
Steve and David conclude by stressing the importance of specificity in marketing messages. They illustrate this with examples from their personal experiences, highlighting how targeted, specific messaging can be more compelling and drive immediate action. By understanding and addressing the specific pain points of a niche market, businesses can craft powerful, effective marketing strategies that resonate deeply with their audience.
23:00 Problems This segment answers questions we've received from clients or listeners.
The Perils of Spammy Cold Calling: A Lesson in Genuine Engagement
In the "Problems" segment, Steve Davis and David Olney delve into the frustrations of outdated and ineffective marketing techniques, particularly spammy cold calling and mass emailing. Steve shares an egregious example of a cold email that he received, highlighting how such approaches can be not only ineffective but also damaging to a brand’s reputation.
The email in question exemplifies all that is wrong with brute-force interruption marketing. It starts with a negative tone, assumes the recipient is at fault for not responding, and even attempts to guilt-trip them into engaging. David criticizes the email's structure, noting that any potential value proposition is buried under layers of off-putting language and poor tactics. This type of communication, David argues, not only fails to engage the recipient but also tarnishes the sender's credibility.
Steve and David then take the discussion further by exploring how AI tools like ChatGPT can assess and even rewrite such emails. However, as they note, even AI's improvements often miss the mark, perpetuating the same fundamental flaws seen in traditional marketing tactics. The key takeaway from this segment is the importance of moving away from outdated, impersonal marketing approaches. Instead, businesses should focus on genuine, personalized engagement that respects the recipient's time and attention, ultimately building trust rather than eroding it.
29:00 Perspicacity This segment is designed to sharpen our thinking by reflecting on a case study from the past.
The Outdated Appeal of the Stable Table: A Look at Retro Advertising
In the "Perspicacity" segment, Steve Davis and David Olney take a nostalgic trip down memory lane, revisiting the infamous stable table—a once-popular product that was marketed heavily in the 1990s. Through the lens of a 1993 advertisement, they explore whether the stable table still holds any relevance in today's world or if it has become a relic of the past.
The stable table, with its plastic surface and beanbag-like cushion underneath, was marketed as a multipurpose household item. The ad touted it as everything from a breakfast table to a math table, emphasizing its non-slip surface. However, Steve humorously debunks the ad’s claims, pointing out that the so-called "non-slip" feature was anything but effective, as drinks would often end up spilling onto the user's lap.
David adds that while the stable table might have solved a particular need in the past, the product seems outdated by today's standards. He suggests that a modern equivalent would need to include features like a charging port, cup holder, and perhaps even an LED light to cater to contemporary needs such as using laptops or other devices. The discussion underscores how product relevance and advertising strategies need to evolve with the times.
As they reflect on the ad, both Steve and David agree that the commercial's lengthy list of features, presented as benefits, would likely fail to resonate with today's audience. In a world where concise, targeted messaging is crucial, the stable table's old-fashioned pitch seems out of place. The segment closes with a recognition that while the stable table may still serve a niche purpose, especially when someone is unwell, its heyday is clearly over. The larger lesson is how easily outdated marketing tactics and products can become irrelevant if they don’t adapt to changing consumer needs and preferences.
Transcript This transcript was generated using Descript.
A Machine-Generated Transcript - Beware Errors
TAMP S05E01
Caitlin Davis: [00:00:00] Talking About Marketing is a podcast for business owners and leaders, produced by my dad, Steve Davis, and his colleague at Talked About Marketing, David Olney, in which they explore marketing through the lens of their own four P's, person, principles, problems, and perspicacity. Yes, you heard that correctly.
Apart from their love of words, they really love helping people. So they hope this podcast will become a trusted companion on your journey in business.
Steve Davis: We're rolling.
David Olney: Do we want to make sure we sound okay? I already did that without you knowing. Oh, that's good. There I was trying not to talk when you were talking just in case you were listening to sound samples. Yeah, that was frustrating me because I needed you to talk. You should have just said dude.
Steve Davis: That was just frustrating David.
David Olney: I know you're getting hungry.
Steve Davis: It's like a daily frustration. [00:01:00] The daily frustration. There is a name for an episode. Let's call that episode, Dealing with Daily Frustrations. Perfect answer.
Caitlin Davis: Our four P's. Number one, person. The aim of life is self development. To realise one's nature perfectly. That is what each of us is here for. Oscar Wilde.
Steve Davis: I'm up there, Jerry! That was my impersonation of which character from Seinfeld?
David Olney: I don't know because I only ever watched about three episodes, but what's going through my head is, Serenity now! Serenity now! Which I remember was George.
Steve Davis: Yes, this was Kramer. When Kramer, uh, the tall, lanky neighbour from across the passageway, uh, went commando.
Admitted to everyone. That he's always commando, [00:02:00] has no underwear on, and he says, yeah, I'm up there, Jerry! Like, that's his freedom. Anyway.
David Olney: I remember him talking about the pretzel being very salty.
Steve Davis: Moving along, um, in the person segment, there was something I heard, uh, Jerry Seinfeld say recently. Bill Maher, who is known to many people, uh, especially in America, he does a, a talk program on, on TV, which is Interesting, hard one.
He is politically left, but not on everything. He's not, he doesn't subscribe, uh, to any particular agenda. Uh, I like him. He's, he's not everyone's cup of tea, but he has a show, a podcast called Club Random, which I can't 100 percent recommend as anything safe for work, uh, or safe for life. Um, because he gets different people from the, uh, world of celebrity to sit down with him.
Uh, for an hour, and they, or an hour and a half, and they just shoot the breeze, [00:03:00] they just chat. And just recently, Jerry Seinfeld was one of his guests, and something Jerry said caught my attention that I thought I'd share with us in the person segment, where we think about us as people, how we interact, whether it's strictly within business or the overlap between business and life.
Let's have a listen.
Bill Maher: You'll never guess who just called me. Leno. I just talked to him, too. He, uh, I said, yeah, I haven't seen him in a while. I really would love to get together. Maybe the three of us when you're out. That'd be amazing.
Jerry Seinfeld: So, that's what's good about these shows, though. Which I'm sure you've already discovered.
And I discovered with the Comedians in Cars. People, I can't, I, I, I can't. I'm not calling people up and hanging out.
Bill Maher: But if you do a show. I said it every week. Yeah. Both people who I know, like you, who are like, exactly, why are we here? Yeah. Because we're forced to, we're not, it's just this crazy [00:04:00] force of thing that makes us, we don't need the money, you don't need the promotion, although we'll certainly do what we can.
Thank you.
Jerry Seinfeld: But the other thing is, I don't know how you feel, I think you might be a little different this way, but I don't like to be around people not working. The working is kind of this base, it's like a baseline current. It's like a beat. It's like, I can hang out with almost any comic if we're here to do a gig.
If we're just, if I'm here just to enjoy your company, that's not good.
Bill Maher: To me, no, the art.
Jerry Seinfeld: It's not going to be good enough, your company.
Steve Davis: You probably understand why my ears pricked up when he said that, because he is a guy who said, You know, Bill, I like you, but I wouldn't just come around to hang out, um, I'm here because we've got the formal structure of an interview, and that's how I've lived my life, the Adelaide show into its almost 11, finished 11 years, actually no, we just turned 11, um, I love getting [00:05:00] together with people, with some microphones, and having a, at least semi structured, Interview like conversation.
It gives me energy. I love it. I learn enough. I learn a lot. I mean, and people behave differently. They listen more because they're going to have to answer. And I feel like it's a wonderful enterprise that humans can be involved in. So I'll just put a full stop in that for now before we move on. turn this around, particularly from a small business or a business person's perspective.
What's your reflection on this, David?
David Olney: First thing is no wonder you like the line, because one of the first things I ever remember you saying to me when we recorded a podcast a lot of years ago is, Oh, I just love it when there's a microphone in front of me, I can keep talking. And you were kind of joking that it's about just liking the sound of your own voice.
But I think you just gave a much better answer. about really [00:06:00] what is the driving factor. You thrive when there's some structure, some learning, you know you're going to engage with a person, you know it's been structured in a way that they are going to share things they know so you can share things you know.
Any kind of structure that means you get a meaningful dialogue is infinitely more rewarding for most humans and less Nerve wracking, because they have an idea of how things are going to proceed.
Steve Davis: You just flipped that on the head, because I said I liked it because people, uh, fall in. They understand the protocol.
And I was thinking about it being an obedient guest or participant. But you just raised the fact that there's also a sense of safety that comes from that because they also know equally that I'm going, if I'm in the host chair, I'm going to be abiding by a set of rules too. So it's a safe space to push the boundaries from.
David Olney: Yep. Because with a [00:07:00] little bit of structure, instead of putting something out there in the world and hoping it lands well, we've said, no, no, no, there's a framework here of roughly what we're going to discuss, how we're going to discuss it, the way we're going to use. Language, that is all about, there's a better chance we're going to talk with each other rather than at each other.
Steve Davis: And it's probably fair to say that it's wrong for me to imply or to be understood as saying aimless conversation chilling is a bad thing because there's benefits that come from that time. I'm just saying I'm wired slightly differently, maybe to my cost because I, if I look at the back of my life since I turned about 30, 35, I don't get as much of that.
I get hardly any of that. Most of my conversations have this light structure approach to them.
David Olney: Yeah, but let's put some context into that. You have two lovely articulate daughters, with whom you can talk random stuff every night at dinner. Well, that's true. [00:08:00] Why do you need random stuff in the rest of your day?
Steve Davis: Yeah, good point, but if we expand that now from someone listening who's running a small business or they're in a business management leadership position, I think there's something to be gathered here from just this awareness of even a lighter structure giving some sort of purpose to a conversation.
When we were talking earlier about this, David, you said something really poignant. You said about. Having a mindfulness about the purpose of a conversation would just make any interaction with a customer query better than it could have been.
David Olney: Because at the end of the day, if someone has contacted you, it's because they've got something That they are thinking about, that they think you might be able to help with.
And they don't necessarily know your products and services, but they do know that you seem like someone who might be able to help them achieve something. But it's up to you as the [00:09:00] person providing products and services to help them start to talk about the disorganized things going on in their head.
All they know is they want an outcome. They may have no clue how to get to that outcome. That's where you fit in as the expert at something. And they're almost on the verge of concluding this person can help me if you can do the right things in the first 10 minutes There's a good chance. They will let you help them and that will be beneficial for your business
Steve Davis: That's the nice version the cut to the chase version is no one really cares about your product You were saying earlier and I agree with this as it come up What they really are seeking is security success or status and that is a beautiful hook into our next segment Is it not?
David Olney: I think you did a lovely job. You did a great job of moving my random thought towards an answer that you can provide a way forward on. Let's do it then. Push go.[00:10:00]
Caitlin Davis: Our four Ps. Number two, principles. You can never be overdressed or over educated. Oscar Wilde.
Steve Davis: In the principles segment, I think it's fair to say that David, you and I, we consume a lot of books. I mean, you're certainly much further down the track. I think your current reading list that's led you to where you are now is tipping about 25 pages of closely typed A4. Is that about right?
David Olney: Yeah, it's getting a bit silly.
I think it's nearly at the end of page 23, about 24, which is a lot of books.
Steve Davis: And, but there is, every now and then, a book jumps out of the list. It's like that, salmon fishing, where they are swimming upstream and they jump out of the water. Or is it trout? One of them jumps up. Yeah. Um. Lean Marketing by Alan Debb.
Um, both of us Have found this. I described it today as being like that beautiful cold shower [00:11:00] to just reset everything and we are going to at the moment. That's our plan. We've got nine episodes this season as usual. There are nine principles of marketing that Alan talks about, and I think it's important.
It's a fair plan to take one at a time and see how it applies to us in our world of small business or in business leadership, et cetera. And the first one that he talks about is selecting your target market. And yes, I saw everyone just Yawn then, so just hold that back because one of the things is there are some things that we all know about and Alan even says in the book, you know, there's not necessarily a lot new in this book, it's just bringing us back to the basics strongly and putting them into context and a couple of things that I want to throw into the hopper for us to talk around that jumped out at both of us.
An inch wide and a mile deep. Which is not my Tinder profile, it's a [00:12:00] classic comment that he's made in this chat. And also, are you selling vitamins or are you selling painkillers? One of them leads more to the bank. Let's just toss these around and it will help tease out some of the value of reading this book, which we recommend.
Allan Dib: One of the things that I've been so fascinated by is the depth that you can go into some of these niches. You know, a lot of people think, uh, especially now with the I mean, we've got billions of people online. You can be so finely specialized and still have more than enough business for the rest of your life.
Um, and so people feel like when they niche down or specialize, they're actually reducing their target market. In fact, what you want to be in is a niche that's an inch wide and a mile deep. And, you know, [00:13:00] I've just been blown away by some of the subcultures that are out there and some of the niches that are out there.
So I'll give you, I'll give you a few examples. There's, um, I came across a guy on Instagram, he calls himself Knees Over Toes Guy. Essentially, he's a fitness trainer who just helps you. You know, strengthen your knees, right, which is a massive problem for a lot of people. This dude makes millions of dollars in his, um, uh, program.
Uh, he sells, uh, he sells like a membership program that basically helps you strengthen your knees. Now, if you've got knee problems, that this guy's, Your guy, right? There's a girl I saw on TikTok. Um, she calls herself Miss Excel and she just gives Excel tips, um, teaches you how to do whatever pivot tables.
She does a little dance or whatever. She does over a million dollars a year in, in, um, Microsoft course sales. And now Microsoft sponsoring her, bringing her to events and all of that sort of stuff. And she used to be some kind of management consultant, hated it, worked at McKinsey or and hated it. [00:14:00] Um, and now she just.
Dancers on TikTok show you how to do a pivot table or whatever and, and, and kills it. There's another guy I saw who has a blog and he's like a real pen geek. He's into pens, right? He reviews the latest pens. There's million different pens and he has affiliate links. Again, he makes an incredible living from that.
So it's highly likely, no matter how specialized or how geeky you are in a particular subculture, There's a group of, there's enough people out there that will pay you to, to do what you want, um, to do what, to pay you to do what you do, that you can make a really good living out of it.
Steve Davis: An inch wide and a mile deep. That is the ideal model of a target market for Alan. Is that fair to say?
David Olney: Absolutely. It's a good visualization because you can't even imagine, you know, a hole an inch wide and a mile deep, but you know, if you. With that deep in the same [00:15:00] spot, you would know everything about that tiny area.
You would be an expert of everything under it, under everything under that, that it's about having an absolute depth of knowledge about what one specific group of people need and want. There'd be confidence that would come from that as well. You would hope that if you've dug that deep and you know a group so well, that you don't have to think before you speak about how you would help those people, and that you would have got very good at asking questions, because how could you know so much without being open to that?
Hey, I think I understand this much about your needs and your wants, but what's different? What's unique? Tell me about why you're here today, because he is clearly very willing to just go deeper and deeper to understand the specific group of people for whom
Steve Davis: we are the best solution. And the specificity is a key message that comes through throughout the book, but especially in this first part of it.
I like the throwaway line he uses. Which is talking to [00:16:00] people, oh yeah, I know my target market, and he says, who are they, and they might say, women 30 to 40, and he would look at them and say, well, you've just narrowed that down to about 25 million people here in the USA, which is not really a target market.
It's too broad. The inch wide aspect means we're very confident that we understand what makes them tick, what they care about. Which leads us into that other lovely turn of phrase, vitamins and painkillers. The way he describes this is, for most of us, unless the doctor has specified something, it's a choice to have some vitamins.
You know, maybe have some vitamin C, or some D, or whatever it might be. It's a choice, and you might forget them some day, it's not the end of the world. But a painkiller, When you've got a headache, you will crawl over cut glass to get to that packet of Panadol or [00:17:00] Neurofen or whatever it might be to make the pain go away.
And this is the cold shower effect here. This is that reminder that if we're going out to market with these lovely messages, It's only when we hone in on naming that pain and offering our painkiller to those people dwelling in our inch wide target market that we have the maximum power that marketing can bring.
David Olney: I would agree. I'm also going to jump back. to the whole idea of general just quickly. For some of our clients, they're going to say, but I wouldn't mind if I got any of those 25 million women between those age groups to come and buy my product. And that's definitely true. There's times where any of 25 million people in the U.
S. might buy your product. But if you can make a product that's relevant to 25 million people, how many other companies are are making products that are equally generally relevant to those [00:18:00] 25 million women. How much price competition are you up for? How much ease of availability are you up for? You are putting yourself in a shark tank where at the very least other sharks are going to bite you.
So what's the gain of being in that tank unless you've got an incredible level of economy of scale? You don't want to be in that market unless you are already quite powerful and big.
Steve Davis: And just one other bit of nuance there is, yes, that's a, that's a good Clarification of that. The other thing I normally do, and have done in my marketing workshops for ages when we talk about this, is nothing to do with target market segmentation is about turning people away from the door necessarily.
So, if many of those 25 million monitors still buy, welcome aboard! What we're, what I'm talking about here specifically is if I'm going to put My last dollar coin down on the ground to cover some sort of marketing push, it goes to [00:19:00] nothing for across all of those people, but it might have a chance of some impact to attract people who are looking for our headache tablet.
David Olney: And this then comes to the thing of Specificity, which is a terrible word to say after two coffees, because, you know, the jitter from the caffeine starts making more C's in specific, specificity than there really are. But this is a great point that Alan makes. If you go into a pharmacy and you look at the rack of different pain pills, some will be for headaches, some will be for backache, some will be for this, some will be for that.
They've all got very simple, targeted words for when you are in pain and your focus is narrow. If you had more energy and concentration when you were in pain and looked at the ingredients, you would see there is rarely any difference, and the more specific the language is, the more specific the product is [00:20:00] meant to be, the more you will pay.
So the general painkiller might be 4. 00. The specific painkiller will be 10. 00. There is no real difference between the two in the majority of cases, other than when your focus is narrow on pain, you want the thing that says it will get rid of that pain right then. So specificity and pain go together, and you are crazy To not understand your market and how to put your product out there in terms of specificity and pain.
Steve Davis: And let's just bring this home with an example that Again, cold shower effect. This is just, this book is just making things salient again. I've booked in to have some carpet cleaning tomorrow with Zoran, lovely man I met through mentoring. It's been on my mind for a few months to support him and get him to clear my carpets.
Haven't done [00:21:00] anything about it. Two weeks ago, I found myself in a Just becoming a bit hay feverish towards the end of the day, on a day that should not have been a hay fever day. And it dawned on me, I reckon it's the dust in the carpets. I think they haven't been cleaned for a long time. It's time that we actually do a proper, I mean they get vacuumed, but they haven't been deep cleansed.
And that's what made me pick up the phone and book him in, he's coming tomorrow. Now, that is moving him in my mind from a vitamin, nice to have, wouldn't it be nice to get the carpets cleaned, to painkiller. I want this to go away. That is this principle in action.
David Olney: And I'm just going to add an example here.
Steve's is a great everyday example. If the product you provide or the service you provide is very much one that people need regularly, but this works just as well at the level of expensive products and services you buy infrequently. I went back to playing guitar during COVID, having not played for at least [00:22:00] 25 years, and discovered that an older body, even playing lots of yoga, it's less comfortable to curl up around a guitar in your 50s than it is in your 20s.
And in my 20s, there was no such thing as ergonomic instruments. Now there are, and I didn't think about it because I wasn't familiar. But in two purchases alone in the last six months, I've spent 8, 000 all up to get two ergonomic guitars. And guess what? I can now sit for three hours on a Sunday afternoon when I have time, and play without any pain.
I solved that problem because of pain. Not because I really desired this brand or this model, because it sounds better, sounds different. It does sound better and it does sound different. But what made me pull the trigger, not just once, on a 4, 000 instrument, but twice, was the pain message. That's music to my ears.
Caitlin Davis: Our four [00:23:00] Ps. Number three, Problems. I asked a question for the best reason possible. Simple curiosity. Oscar Wilde.
Steve Davis: Turning to problems now, and we look into the mailbag, sometimes they're questions you've sent in, sometimes they're the things that have come through. You know that I detest the spammy cold calling world, and here's a great example of where it's just, this is the rudeness that these spammers have embraced.
Now, out of the blue, they demand your attention to set up a 15 minute meeting. I've not asked for it. Then I get this. This is, I'm reading directly from an email sent to me by Lucas Alankajia from Sandbox Motion, and he says, Now is the time for you to block me. You've received three emails and you've still not replied.
This guy is not taking the hint. [00:24:00] You must think that I suck at my job. Correct. They do say, David, that often in sales, get people to nod and agree with you. This is not using that the way it's meant to be used. If I can't even get you to reply, how should I be able to generate leads for your business? The truth is, we send out 6, 000 emails every day.
That's 180, 000 plus a month. And we only need a fraction of those to turn into actual clients for it to be worth it for both you and us. Well that's repulsive. It's simply a numbers game, he says. Can I send over more information on how we do the same for you? Remember, we work on a strict no cure, no pay basis.
David, did that warm the cockles of your heart?
David Olney: Oh, it's so spectacularly bad and frustrating. That we still have horrendous outbound marketing like this in 2024, and that the only [00:25:00] sentence that might have made me care, the final sentence about you don't pay unless you get results, was at the end? So not only are they using crass, old school marketing mechanisms that don't work, they're also too stupid to write an email that has the only important line at the beginning.
Lucas, I don't know where you studied marketing, mate, but get your money back.
Steve Davis: Uh, I thought you were about to do a Donald Trump on us and say, Lucas, you are fired. Um, I'm just gonna quickly ask chat. GPT. Can you assess the likely efficacy of this cold call email? And now I'm going colon paste that in.
Let's have a look and see what ChatGPT says. Strengths. It has an intention grabbing subject line. Now's the time for you to block me. Direct approach. It cuts to the chase. Transparency. The honesty in admitting the email is part of a large scale campaign could [00:26:00] resonate with some people. No cure, no pay.
That could be compelling. Weaknesses. Negative tone. It begins with a negative assumption. You must think I suck. Guilt tripping. The tone implies the recipient's at fault. Impersonal. While the honesty about mass emailing is transparent, it highlights the email as part of a broad campaign. Lack of value proposition.
It focuses heavily on the sender's challenge, not on yours. Risk of being ignored. The tone and approach might make some recipients feel uncomfortable or disrespected or use as an example in their marketing podcast. I didn't put that bit in. Suggestions for improvement, find a new job. No, shift, shift to a positive tone, personalise the message, clarify the value proposition, a soft call to action.
And they've actually rewritten it. Here you go. Subject, unlock lead generation success with a risk free offer. Dear, recipient's name, I understand how busy you are [00:27:00] and I wanted to reach out one last time to see if our lead generation service might be a fit for your business. We've helped businesses like yours connect with thousands of potential clients every month, and we're confident We can do the same for you.
The best part, we work on a strict, no cure, no pay basis, so there's absolutely no risk for you to try us out. Could I send you more information on how we could support your growth? Looking forward to your thoughts.
David Olney: I find that fascinating, that it's rewrite of the email is still the wrong way around. So it's interesting that because it's coming from a large language model and it's learning from how badly most marketing emails are written, that it's still writing them as badly as Lucas.
The tone's better, yes. But the, why would I care factor? Of bottom line up front just isn't happening.
Steve Davis: I think at the end of the day, it's just the wrong game to be in there or this is a pe. These are people peddling a really old fashioned method of brute force [00:28:00] interruption marketing. Pure numbers game, and they lose any credibility for me, with me, in the first instance.
And secondly, I wouldn't want my business associated with operators like these.
David Olney: We're recording this in, you know, the middle of August 2024. And in less than a month, all of us on Apple devices are going to get access to Apple AI that is going to learn by reading our emails what we think of things, who we respond to, what we ignore, and it supposedly from day one is going to be sorting our email and this email is going to immediately go in the, why would I ever show it to Steve, bundle.
So this form of marketing is about to get hit with AI going, Oh, even I could do better than this.
Steve Davis: Yuck. Let's grab a snack, sit down together and watch the entertainment.
Caitlin Davis: Our four Ps. Number four. Perspicacity. [00:29:00] The one duty we owe to history is to rewrite it. Oscar Wilde.
Steve Davis: As I alluded to, let's sit down, let's get a snack, let's watch some entertainment using our stable tables, David, because in the Perspicacity segment, we want to look at the old ads that used to run and the whole idea of the old stable table to see how relevant they would be today. Now, in case there is a YouTube video of a 1993 ad.
for stable tables, which you can see on our, on the show notes on our website, um, but in essence, you might remember, there are an anemic fawn, light brown fawn, uh, plastic rectangular table with a moat built around the edge with a lip. And they were, they had a, a cloth, uh, pillow underbelly that was filled with beanbag beans.
So you could sit in front of the [00:30:00] telly and place your TV dinner on top without it spilling. One thing that's hilarious, let's have a listen to the excerpt.
Stable Table Ad: It's a breakfast table. A card table. A sewing table. A pool table. A dining table. A vegetable. A math table. A kitchen table. It's the stable table. With a non slip surface. And lots of different colours. Stable table. For a stable 16.
Steve Davis: Wow, that is a big list. They're just hitting us with all the different places or usage occasions for this. The non stick, um, top though, we've still got two of these in our household. Exactly like in the ad. And it's got that lovely tall [00:31:00] glass. They tilt it and it does not move. That is false. That is misleading advertising.
That would be over your lap in a jiffy.
David Olney: Yep. And it would very much make you believe the only benefit of the stable table is the hot or cold beverage lands on the expensive couch rather than on you.
Steve Davis: Yes. So, stable tables. I had a quick look online. It doesn't, Look like you're able to buy these table tables anymore.
All the ones that are around, they've got a soft spongy bottom, but they have a bamboo top. And so, I guess that's just the modern way, although no moat, which is interesting, which means that food can, especially
David Olney: Everything just rolls off the edge.
Steve Davis: Yes. It's, it's weird. It looks shinier. It's like you're on a, um, a bowling alley top, which doesn't quite make sense.
Have they [00:32:00] had their day? I mean, there's probably still a usage occasion for them. Maybe not a place to play cards. I mean,
David Olney: again, now you're going to want to put your laptop on it. So you really need a charging port, a cup holder, an LED light, probably, um, you know, a track pad for controlling all your devices.
Like, I'm sure we could make the smart stable table. But I think as the stable table is the ad. Suggested that people needed to solve insomnia, not a household need.
Steve Davis: Yes, and one thing also, if you've been hearing a little noise for the last five minutes, it's David playing with the bottom of his microphone.
I'm so bad, sorry. I need a stable table for the bottom of your microphone. No, I just need to take my hands away. Bad David. But we're leaving that in, because I am starving and we need to go and have some lunch together. And I think we've made some good points. The Stable Table, those ads we would just laugh at, [00:33:00] I think, today.
They're pretty vanilla. They're just annoying. They're a list of features. Well, sort of dressed up as benefits. And has the world moved on? Maybe not. Maybe there are still people who love watching by the TV. I know so much now that it's just bad for everybody to watch TV. TV while eating food. You should, like we do now, which is good.
We stop. We actually go, the TV turns off. We sit around the table. We eat that way. That's a much healthier way to be. I know it's not always possible, and I'm probably sounding up myself in saying that.
David Olney: It's aspirational, and we need to do aspirational things.
Steve Davis: I just like paying attention to the food and the people with me.
Admittedly, sometimes they're just swapping it out for another small screen, and I'm just sitting there making dad jokes, but at least it's on a proper table and not a little stable table. But if you're sick They're useful. Makes you wonder now that you can't buy them anymore. Were they just full of toxic materials, David?[00:34:00]
David Olney: If they were the beads that go into, um, bean bags, I imagine those little beads probably last 10 million years.
Steve Davis: Yeah, well, we still have service out of ours, um, when it's used occasionally, but you're right, it is only when someone's sick and they just sort of planted in the big lounge chair. So, our verdict is Could you actually run those ads today and get some sales from them?
David Olney: I think not, because the ad is too long, too repetitive, not really very creative. The product speaks for itself. The ad should have been five seconds.
Steve Davis: The only thing I can think of is, now that we have Netflix having people glued to binge, it's just a way to watch it. To stay binging longer without having to move it.
It's such a negative for all of society get up In fact one thing I will just say finally Amazon Prime we get that because we're a Prime member and they've inserted ads now [00:35:00] Without anyone being asked they've started randomly putting one or two ads in together Cause an outcry it made me cancel my paramount plus add on because I didn't want to support them because we're kind of paying for this already and they're inserting ads, but what I'm loving about it, it's reminded me of the beauty of interruption TV because it gives me a great chance.
I turn the TV off more often. Then ever because of this interruption, so it's backfuring on them. I think it's actually forcing me to get up and proving you a reason to go, do I really need to sit in front of the screen which helps me deal with my daily frustrations. Next episode starts in three seconds.
Caitlin Davis: Thank you for listening to Talking About Marketing. If you enjoyed it, please leave a rating or a review in your favourite podcast app. And if you found it helpful, please share it with others. Steve and David always welcome your comments and questions, [00:36:00] so send them to podcast at talkedaboutmarketing. com.
And finally, the last word to Oscar Wilde. There's only one thing worse than being talked about, and that's not being talked about.