Steve Davis and David Olney explore the power of 'posture' in professional relationships, highlighting how confidence, trust, and strategic positioning influence success in business and personal interactions.
In this episode of "Talking About Marketing," titled "Posturefest - Just What The Doctor Ordered," Steve Davis and David Olney delve into the multifaceted concept of 'posture' in both professional and personal realms. They explore how adopting the right stance—whether it's trusting experts, asserting confidence in negotiations, staying vigilant against scams, or crafting compelling marketing messages—can significantly influence outcomes in business and life.
Let the Expert Be the Expert: Trust in Professional Relationships
Steve shares insights from Dr. Adam Sifu's appearance on the Econ Talk podcast, emphasizing the importance of mutual respect in the doctor-patient relationship. They discuss how a patient's demeanor can impact a doctor's ability to provide optimal care and draw parallels to their own consulting experiences. Key Point: Trusting experts and allowing them the space to apply their knowledge enhances the value of professional relationships.
Navigating the Business Jungle: Lessons from 'Winning Through Intimidation'
The conversation shifts to Robert Ringer's book Winning Through Intimidation, which challenges the notion of always being agreeable. Steve and David explore Ringer's concept of 'posture'—presenting oneself with confidence to avoid being exploited in competitive environments. Key Points: Maintaining a strong posture is crucial; reframing challenges as 'points' rather than 'problems' can help diffuse tension and keep control during negotiations.
A Momentary Lapse: Lessons from Nearly Falling for a Phishing Scam
Steve candidly recounts nearly falling victim to a phishing scam, highlighting that even vigilant individuals can have off moments. They stress the importance of being fully present when handling potentially fraudulent communications. Key Point: Constant vigilance is essential; always double-check emails and links before taking action to protect personal and professional information.
The Art of FOMO: Critiquing Fast Food Advertising Strategies
Finally, they analyse a recent McDonald's advertisement promoting three variations of the Quarter Pounder. Steve and David critique the ad's lack of focus and urgency, discussing how effective marketing should leverage novelty and the fear of missing out (FOMO) to motivate consumers. Key Point: A clear, compelling call to action with a singular focus can create stronger consumer engagement than multiple, diluted options.
Get ready to take notes!
Talking About Marketing podcast episode notes with timecodes
01:30 Person This segment focusses on you, the person, because we believe business is personal.
Let the Expert Be the Expert: Trust in Professional Relationships
In this segment, Steve Davis delves into insights from Dr. Adam Sifu's recent appearance on the Econ Talk podcast. Dr. Sifu reflects on the doctor-patient relationship, emphasising that while physicians hold significant responsibility, the interaction is a two-way street. He discusses how a patient's demeanor and approach can impact a doctor's ability to provide optimal care, noting that mutual respect enhances the professional's capacity to be fully present and offer their best insights.
Steve and David draw parallels between Dr. Sifu's observations and their own experiences in consulting and education. They share anecdotes about clients or students who, despite seeking expert advice, attempt to assert control or showcase superiority. This dynamic can hinder the collaborative process and prevent professionals from delivering the most effective solutions.
The key takeaway is the importance of trust and openness in professional relationships. By allowing experts the space to apply their knowledge without unnecessary interference, clients and patients stand to gain the most. Steve and David advocate for a balanced approach where questions and active engagement are encouraged, but ultimately, trusting the expert leads to better outcomes.
09:15 Principles This segment focusses principles you can apply in your business today.
Navigating the Business Jungle: Lessons from 'Winning Through Intimidation'
In this segment, Steve Davis discusses his experience reading Robert Ringer's book Winning Through Intimidation, following David Olney's recommendation. The book challenges Steve's natural inclination to be agreeable and well-liked, suggesting instead that in the competitive world of business—likened to a jungle—one must adopt a strong posture to avoid being exploited. Ringer argues that displaying any signs of weakness can make one a target in a cut-throat environment.
David elaborates on Ringer's concept of "posture," highlighting how Ringer used confidence and strategic positioning to succeed in the real estate industry. They discuss tactics such as reframing "problems" as "points" during negotiations to diffuse tension and maintain control. By presenting himself as organised and unflappable—arriving in his own jet with his legal team—Ringer set the terms of engagement and signalled that he was not to be underestimated.
Steve and David reflect on how these principles apply to marketing and consulting today. They debate whether Ringer's approach is outdated in an era where vulnerability and openness are often celebrated on platforms like LinkedIn. David contends that while authenticity is important, displaying vulnerability in professional settings can be risky, as it may invite exploitation. They conclude that maintaining a confident posture is crucial in business interactions, reserving personal vulnerabilities for close friends and family.
25:30 Problems This segment answers questions we've received from clients or listeners.
A Momentary Lapse: Lessons from Nearly Falling for a Phishing Scam
In this segment, Steve Davis makes a candid confession about nearly falling victim to a phishing scam, despite his extensive experience warning others about such threats. He recounts receiving an email with the subject line "Action required pending 2024 tax activity," which coincided with his actual tax affairs, making it more convincing. The email appeared to be from MyGov, a legitimate government platform, but contained several red flags he initially overlooked due to a momentary lapse in attention.
Steve highlights the warning signs he missed: the email was sent to a large CC list of unrelated recipients—something no official organisation would do—and included a suspicious link disguised as the MyGov dashboard. Additionally, the email oddly referenced a UK electrical company's disclaimer. It was only after clicking the link and noticing the unfamiliar web address that Steve realised something was amiss, prompting him to halt any further action.
David Olney responds empathetically, emphasising that even the most vigilant individuals can have off moments. They both stress the importance of being fully present when handling emails, especially those requesting sensitive information. The key takeaway is a reminder that cyber threats are sophisticated and can catch anyone off guard, reinforcing the need for constant vigilance and double-checking before clicking links or providing personal details.
29:30 Perspicacity This segment is designed to sharpen our thinking by reflecting on a case study from the past.
The Art of FOMO: Critiquing Fast Food Advertising Strategies
In this segment, Steve Davis and David Olney examine a recent McDonald's advertisement promoting three variations of the Quarter Pounder burger. David expresses confusion over the ad's effectiveness, questioning how offering multiple similar options without a strong focal point or clear urgency can entice customers. He recalls that in the past, limited-time offers created a genuine sense of novelty and fear of missing out (FOMO), prompting people to act quickly.
Steve shares his own experiences with fast-food promotions, reminiscing about occasions when unique offerings like burgers with pineapple or beetroot captured his interest due to their novelty and limited availability. He mentions that despite generally avoiding fast food these days, he was recently drawn in by a Wagyu burger at Hungry Jack's, demonstrating how a well-executed marketing strategy can overcome consumer hesitation.
Together, they conclude that the McDonald's ad falls short because it lacks a compelling call to action and doesn't effectively leverage FOMO. They emphasise the importance of focusing on a single, enticing offer rather than diluting the message with multiple options. The segment reinforces key marketing principles discussed in previous episodes, highlighting the need for clarity, novelty, and urgency in advertising to motivate consumer action.
Transcript This transcript was generated using Descript.
A Machine-Generated Transcript - Beware Errors
TAMP S05E03
[00:00:00] Caitlin Davis: Talking About Marketing is a podcast for business owners and leaders, produced by my dad, Steve Davis, and his colleague at Talked About Marketing, David Olney, in which they explore marketing through the lens of their own four P's, person, principles, problems, and perspicacity. Yes, you heard that correctly.
Apart from their love of words, they really love helping people. So they hope this podcast will become a trusted companion on your journey in business.
[00:00:39] Steve Davis: David, good to see you. Good to hear you. Thank you for coming in today and I'd just like you to take your clothes off and sit up on this bench and lean forward. This is the time where if I could see, I would run. I didn't say put your clothes on top of mine, which is the classic, uh, one liner. Uh, cause we're getting into the doctor's practice in just a moment.
They're quickly retreating to the realm of marketing.
[00:01:10] Caitlin Davis: Our four P's, number one, person. The aim of life is self development. To realize one's nature perfectly, that is what each of us is here for. Oscar Wilde.
[00:01:32] Steve Davis: In the person segment, I want to share some really interesting thoughts from a Dr. Adam Sifu, which he made recently on an episode of Econ Talk, one of my favorite. Podcasts, in which he's reflected on his years of being a doctor and striving to do the best for the clients but trying to be really earnest in evaluating his shortcomings.
What makes it harder to give a patient good service? Are there some patients you favor? And what I really appreciated about this conversation, David, is he was up front in saying, yes, the doctor has the responsibility, but it is a two way street. How you act, the demeanor you have when you're seeing a doctor, directly relates to what you're saying.
To how, because doctors are human, their capacity to be fully present to you and bring that extra, not just their professionalism, but their goodwill to the table, which is where some of the, the inspired ideas come from in their prognosis and diagnosis and their suggestions of treatment. Let's warm our engines up by having a quick listen.
[00:02:53] Dr Adam Cifu: I will say to the patient, you know, Mr. Roberts, Dr. Roberts, what would you like to be called? Um, and then I will respond in that same way. Um, I will not tell people what to call me. I'm sort of perfectly happy with them calling me. You know, Dr. Sifu, Adam, whatever they like. If they say Mr. Sifu, I usually say, you know, you can call me anything, call me Adam, call me Dr.
Sifu, just don't call me Mr. Sifu, I've worked very hard for that degree, it seems weird for me. Um, and so, most of the time when patients come in and say, you know, Adam, how are you? There are people who I've already known and I'm very comfortable with. The people who address me as that Right off the bat, um, it does seem like a little bit of a power play to me.
Yeah. Um, yeah. And I'm sort of fine with it, but it gives me some information about the patient, about the person I'm dealing with. And it makes me understand a little bit more about who they are, what they expect from the relationship, how I think they're going to treat me. Um, and so, um, In a way, maybe as the person doing that, it's fine.
It's a way of signaling, and um, it probably cuts out a lot of, a lot of the time of trying to work to understand who this person is.
[00:04:12] Russ Roberts: You have been a patient, certainly, in your life, and you've gone to doctor's offices. When you're sitting there, In that beautiful robe, it's much like a spa, really, usually when you're in a doctor's office, when you're sitting in that flimsy robe or in some state of undress, do you find yourself, uh, reflecting on this issue, that The person on the other side of that relationship may not be seeing you as a peer or may be, and how that affects your ability to share your symptoms and so on.
[00:04:45] Dr Adam Cifu: I do. Interestingly, from me, given my role and now, you know, advancing age, um, I think so much when I'm in that position about how I'm going to make sure that I'm actually being seen as a peer. as a patient rather than as a doctor, um, and make sure that I'm in a way being treated like everybody else, spoken to like everybody else, and I probably overplay the patient role, um, because I have seen so many, you know, let's call them VIPs, um, you know, treated poorly because people are so careful about how they're going to ask questions and, and what kind of tests they're going to recommend.
And I want to stress so intensely that like, God, you gotta take care of me like you would take care of anybody else. Um, maybe, maybe an opposite reaction than when people would expect, but I sort of, I embrace the paper gown, I guess.
[00:05:55] Steve Davis: Isn't that interesting, David, that little game? That some people want to play because they need to have the alpha status. Even when they really would benefit from just listening for a bit and shutting up.
[00:06:12] David Olney: It reminds me of all the years of teaching at university. That there's always one 18 year old undergrad.
Who, it's not that they think they know better. It's fine if they know more about the topic than me. But thinks they somehow can outperform the lecturer or tutor with more than a decade of experience who has their best interests and well being at heart. And, yeah, that kid you normally want to slide along the floor and out the room as fast as possible.
Because they're so disruptive.
[00:06:45] Steve Davis: Well, that aside, although valid though it is, uh, as I was listening to Adam Sifu talk I couldn't help but think of those little occasions that have happened throughout my 20 odd years of doing consulting, where you occasionally come across someone who has come to see you as the marketing consultant but they know better.
And, uh, They just want to dictate exactly what wants to happen, and often, there are a myriad of reasons why that is not really the way forward, even though Every Tom, Dick, and Harry seems to be doing things of that ilk and I think that the takeaway, the reason I wanted to share this from a personal perspective is yes, I want us to get better the best we can from the people we turn to especially with health because that's so important.
But even when you do decide to engage a consultant like us. Yes, ask questions. Yes, you know, have that arm to arm combat as you grapple with an issue. But once there's a bit of a plan, there's, there's a point where You need to let that consultant have some fresh air to do their best and to not worry and start double guessing themselves because of all the mixed signals they might be getting.
And especially this is hard in this day and age because there is so much crap and so many spammers who say we've looked at your website or we've seen this and it's terrible. It's terrible. And it's just lying. And also the many, well, Sort of consultants out there who are giving away heaps of stuff for free, and they just want to get in your ear, and they just want to sell Instagram, or they want to sell something else, and so they'll come up with every reason in the world why, without even having met you, what they're selling is the answer, and it's, it is the classic case of too many cooks spoiling the broth.
At some point, we have to let the cook cook.
[00:08:51] David Olney: Yeah, I always think of it in terms of either trust the expert, or be the expert, but don't try and combine the two. Right.
[00:08:59] Steve Davis: Well, that's my prescription for you right there.
[00:09:06] Caitlin Davis: Our four P's. Number two, principles. You can never be overdressed or over educated. Oscar Wilde
[00:09:20] Steve Davis: Turning to principles now and David, I was having a fatigued moment of so many different podcasts and books that I really wanted to get through and you told me about Winning Through Intimidation by Robert Ringer and you said, you know what? I think it would be good to read it. I think it would be good to squeeze it in.
And I did. And I'm glad I did. This book is an unsettling read for some of us, the way our demeanors are. Because I, well Probably not news to anyone who knows me. I do kind of like being liked. And not just for the sake of being liked, I just like being a nice person. And Robert is saying, mate, you've got your priorities all the wrong way round.
It's a jungle out there, and if The people in that jungle sense any weakness or softness or meekness in you, you're going to be tomorrow's crocodile shit, as the saying goes. Have I summed that up?
[00:10:27] David Olney: You've summed it up beautifully, but I think I'll add a little bit here about the title. Dear listener, the purpose of the title of the book is when Robert Ringer got into real estate after realizing he wasn't going to make a good chemical engineer.
He realized very quickly there were three kinds of people he was interacting with in the world of fairly big scale real estate. And they were all going to beat him in business through different forms of intimidation. Some were going to pretend to be nice and then backstab him. Some were going to be nasty and then backstab him.
Some were going to tell him up front, I'm going to backstab you, it's just a question of when, and then backstab him. And what he learnt over time is you need to go into every situation ready to behave in a way that says, here's how I function, here's what I'm doing next, and I'm only giving you one option for good behaviour.
And if you don't behave well, I will either withdraw the deal, or I will do something where I still win, and you don't. And it's what Ringer calls posture. So posture is being prepared in every minute to show what happens next, how the world is going to be. A Navy SEAL once summed it up to me beautifully, How you do anything is how you do everything.
So act in every moment in a way that makes it completely clear who you are, how you behave, and how things are going to end.
[00:12:00] Steve Davis: From a marketing perspective, the closest word is positioning. So, it is how you want to be perceived by the other. And so, I guess he really dwells, because he uses the jungle analogy.
In many ways, Robert is adopting the state of nature law, where the gorilla that stands taller and can pound its chest a bit more, Just stops the others from even deciding to have a go. It's not that he wants to get into a brawl. In fact, he wants not to get into a brawl. He makes some very good points, that even with all the protections in the world, that you've set yourself up with, with your, uh, deals, If you've got to go to court, it's still in the favor of the bad party, because they know how to slow the system down, take years for you to get anything, you're still paying money for the whole process, and if they happen to go belly up in that time, well you might win, um, which was going to be my situation when I got completely Uh, blindsided by someone in my life in recent years.
I would have won the court case, but come home nothing, because very clever at hiding all the money. Um, and so, it is a jungle out there, and it is preening yourself to really just take having a go at you off the table.
[00:13:18] David Olney: So, wonderful way to explain this. Robert Ringer, by the time he was 30, In the early 1970s, was turning up to major real estate deals in his own jet with his name on the side, walking down the stairs, followed by his secretary, then by his security guys with all her equipment.
So if a deal was agreed in the meeting, which he normally held at airports, so people could see his plane, and see he bought his own people and his own office, That the minute the deal was agreed, it would be written up and signed. He very often took his own attorney to make sure everything was right, to be able to counter sign.
And then if there was a cheque handed over, he and his security guys would go straight to the nearest bank and cash it, to then get back on the plane with the cash. Now, what everyone learnt about doing business with Robert is, Whoa, did you see how organised he is? There's no wiggling out of the deal.
There's no trying to cancel the cheque. There's no trying to intimidate Robert, because quite simply, if you start messing around on the deal, he'll just go, well clearly this was a waste of time, pack him and his people up and get back on the plane.
[00:14:31] Steve Davis: And here are a couple of things that's already come through that I think all of us can learn from.
One, he said he learned early on, through some of the bad people out there, that um, if they were wealthy, they could just always think of, oh, I don't really care, it's the next. There'll be another deal, and so they can bluff, and they might want something, it's not 100 percent right, they want more, and so they say, ah, nah, take it or leave it.
And if you're desperate, you can't do that, but if you've got that little buffer, you can do it, and often that, that wins the day. I thought that was an interesting insight from the book. There's another one that I wanted to refer to, and that is where When it gets down to the final deal, he let his attorney, or lawyer as we call them, deal with the lawyers of the other side, because there's something in the way lawyers interact most of the time between each other, where they, it's like they're playing a sport, where there are rules, and they play hard within it, I mean the, the people on the um, on the seller's side, want to block every deal and make it really hard for you, etc.
And they want to throw it out the water. But there's honour among thieves, if you like. There's a way where, and he often, he made the comment, sort of galling that you've seen two lawyers who, one on your side, one on their side, fight. Then when it's the end of the day, they arm and arm, they go off and have a drink together, because far as they're concerned, it's just them.
It was a great day at work. Yes. Um, however, this is the really important We're going to have a listen to him make this point now. And it's about the words that are used having power. So he's all there for intimidation. He's all there for being big and puffy, but when a lawyer would bring up these things that could scuttle the deal and want to go raise all these problems, he very carefully didn't call them problems.
He said, they're points. There are points for us to discuss. I just have to listen to him.
[00:16:26] Robert Ringer: I figured out early that legal man would expect me to come crashing through the middle of the line to try to pick up that last yard. And that he would set his defenses accordingly. So to cross him up, I would usually try to finesse my way over the goal line. With a well executed end sweep, or perhaps a screen pass to the outside, I might just be able to make that last yard untouched.
Straight up the middle would be asking for a bloody collision. In other words, I never try to push legal man or get tough with him. The big fellow with the cape is hard to intimidate because his law school training continually reinforced in his brain the notion that no one merits a higher station in life.
By the same token, I realized that it would be a fatal mistake for me to cower. If there was one thing I had to give legal man credit for, it was his killer instinct. I knew that once he sensed weakness on my part, he would ride roughshod over me. If I adopted the odd attitude that so many of my comrades in the PAC had been intimidated into doing when dealing with attorneys, I knew that Legalman would knock the ball from my grasp and most likely recover the fumble.
I therefore displayed a calm, matter of fact attitude in Legalman's presence. When I spoke, it was with an air that implied I had no concerns about anything and that a closing was a foregone conclusion. Problems did not represent obstacles to a closing. But merely minor points that had to be handled as a natural part of every deal.
Such an attitude was confusing to legal man, because he expected me to display the typical real estate agent's panic demeanor. By acting unconcerned about each deal killing goody that he pulled from his bag, I I was able to throw Legalman off balance and thereby weaken his defenses. He was totally unprepared to deal with someone who seemed to not even acknowledge his deal killing skills.
As Legalman injected one problem after another into a deal, I would say things like, That's a very good point. Not problem. I'm glad you brought it up. I would then proceed to state, not ask, a number of ways that we, not just legal men, would, not could, handle, not solve, that particular point. Again, not problem.
But never did I directly challenge legal men. My attitude was that it was assumed by everyone involved that there was going to be a closing. And that the only purpose of our all being present was to work together to handle the normal points that are inherent in every closing. Just business as usual.
[00:19:15] Steve Davis: You see, that's masterful. That is him reframing things to diffuse the energy, diffuse the emotion, and to Operate with the assumption that everybody in the room wants the deal to go through and when he is like that, he can then make that infectious for the others and so it's not just, well, we're going to solve it.
No problems to be solved. There are points to iron out. And how are we going to address them? Very clever, David. Very clever,
[00:19:46] David Olney: massively so. And the fact that by talking that way, he gets it back in the hands of his, Lawyer and the other side's lawyer who are just having a day of combat with rules. So once again he's realized that the best posture in the business he's in is to get it out of the hands of principals who try and use intimidation and get it in the hands of the lawyers who fight with rules.
That he can get a better outcome every time if he can get it in the hand of his lawyer and the other principal knows. Well, Robert flew in here in his plane. He bought his own security. He bought his own executive assistant. He bought a transportable office to get the contract sorted straight away. If I'm going to play games with this guy, this deal is going to disappear, because this guy is so switched on, he's just not going to tolerate rubbish.
And this is an interesting thing that Ringer and Sandler have in common. They both learnt you walk into every deal with The expression on your face and the idea in your head. I don't need this. This would be nice, but I don't need it. Because that is such an important point of posture. If the other side smelled desperation on you, you are in real trouble.
[00:21:04] Steve Davis: It's why I often pause before people ask me. I need work. I'll go on LinkedIn and say I'm available for work. I have hesitation about that because I have hesitation about that because I think there's different ways. Sadly, this world is who you know, and it's about relationships you build up over time.
Hopefully when you're in a position That you're proactively engaged in things, but if there's a sense of weakness in the water, and it sounds horrible to say it like that, David, but that sense of lack, that sense of want, it's like, you know, they talk about sharks being able to pick up the scent of blood from miles away.
Uh, it's, I just wonder if actually not doing that, but upping the game of engaging in going to a mixer event, um, joining a club, doing things, um, wherever possible, so that you can build that relationship, which is something that, um, Ringer did too, he forged some good relationships with some buyers, and they often Uh, then batted for him and told the seller no, we will sign this contract on the agreement that, uh, Ringer gets his commission, and that's from the time he put in to those relationships.
[00:22:19] David Olney: And to go back to the example of the person on LinkedIn, the better posture for that person on LinkedIn, and again, the way the economy is getting harder, more and more people are going to desperately need work. But. Offer something different if you desperately need work. Say to the person you've reached out to, Oh, how about I do a single trial piece of work for you at some time in the next fortnight?
I'm busy today, but I could probably do it early next week if we could agree on something I could do in two or three hours to show you how talented I am.
[00:22:52] Steve Davis: Which is very Ringer like. He was basically creating a different playground to play in, where he had some control, but From position of strength, and not macho, horrible strength necessarily, just confidence, that air of confidence.
[00:23:06] David Olney: Don't let anyone know you're vulnerable, because there's a good chance that some of the people you're going to encounter will utterly abuse that vulnerability, as Robert Ringer experienced in his early career.
[00:23:20] Steve Davis: And yet here we are in 2024, at the time of recording, and to hear those words, don't let people know you're vulnerable, goes against just about 90 percent of what is seen on LinkedIn.
People who have these long posts talking about the different internal emotional struggles they're having, which is worshipped and celebrated as a sign of being a modern human, Is Ringer outdated? Or are these people just living in a different part of the world where they're not necessarily as prey to the thuggery?
[00:23:55] David Olney: Unfortunately, from my experience of working in America, the person who is admitting how vulnerable they are is unfortunately putting the blood in the water for the shark. And I don't blame the shark when it comes and bites them.
[00:24:09] Steve Davis: Well, that's harsh.
[00:24:11] David Olney: Because the sharks are still out there, and they always will be.
And the harder the economy gets, the more the sharks are well fed.
[00:24:20] Steve Davis: And yet we know we need to have confidence to talk to Bambi. It's just not putting it up in the that's not
[00:24:25] David Olney: LinkedIn for 4, 000 people. That's with the people that care about you. Yeah. There's, you know, public persona. Okay, we don't want to be an artificial person, and Ring is never talking about artificial.
He absorbed his posture. It became who he was professionally. He was always in a sharp suit. He always looked immaculate. His people always look immaculate. That's part of posture. It's not artificial. But making yourself vulnerable in a world where you don't know if anyone else is as evolved as you is dangerous.
Keep that for your life and your friends and your family and the people who will give you a hug when you need to cry. Yeah. Don't put it out where you're vulnerable to the kind of people that used an abused ringer in the early part of his career.
[00:25:17] Caitlin Davis: Our four Ps. Number three, problems. I asked the question for the best reason possible. Simple curiosity. Oscar Wilde.
[00:25:31] Steve Davis: In the problem segment this week, I actually have a confession to make, David. We're just talking about vulnerability. I'm about to become totally vulnerable. And that's
[00:25:39] David Olney: good because it's with a community of
[00:25:40] Steve Davis: people who care about you. Okay. Here it is. You know how I've spoken all the time about phishing attacks, emails that Pretend to be from an official, um, business or government organization, so they trick you to click a link, thinking you're dealing with a legitimate agency, and they're wanting to double check credentials, so you type them in, and now they've got your details, and off they run.
And I, we'll talk until I'm blue in the face to save people from this. Last week, I clicked one of those links, David.
[00:26:15] David Olney: If you only click the first link, that's okay. We all have moments when we're tired and we want the simple path forward.
[00:26:23] Steve Davis: Yeah, this one had a subject line, Action required pending 2024 tax activity.
Now, I knew my accountant had been working on some tax stuff and so the brain was like, and I was, this was done in a glance, which is the first lesson I want to teach. Really, we cannot afford to do any. interactions on autopilot. We've got to be fully present when we do them. Um, and basically, it had the MyGov name, and what I should have picked up is not BCC, but BCC.
But in CC, had about a hundred other names there. Now, no government, no business organization would send something, in this case business, would ever do that. That is not doable. And it said, you have pending tax activity for the year 2024 that requires your attention. Please review the nominated details to resolve this matter.
To proceed, please view the notice on your myGov dashboard. Best regards, the tax team. For company registration details and disclaimer C. www. edmundsonelectrical. co. uk slash disclaimer. Alright, that should have also been something I'd seen. Now, I just clicked the MyGov dashboard and it looked wrong. And, actually, in fact, even before I saw it, I went, my brain caught up and said, hang on, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, let's just double check there.
And then, of course, I did the thing I normally do. Hover the mouse over the link to see where it was really going. And this was actually going to L. EAD. ME slash bed triple X 565656 SLE, some random thing where they would have had a site, um, that was going to look like the ATO and asked me to put my details in.
I'm confident I would never have gone that far, but Out of all due diligence and transparency, I had to share this with you, that even when we know, there's still that little moment where that, that, that bowler has swung that ball down and it's hit a little bit of dirt on the pitch and it's bounced way you didn't expect.
David, that's about it, isn't it? It's um.
[00:28:38] David Olney: You just have to go, I clicked one thing. Don't click the next thing. Get that present moment awareness back to go, Why am I doing this? If it really is my gov, I can just go type the address into the browser and log in properly. Because they tell you don't ever follow the links in the email.
And what did I just do? So you have multiple opportunities generally with any of these kinds of scam to pull back from the brink. Don't feel bad if you click on the first link, and sometimes it's interesting to see what happens if you do.
[00:29:12] Steve Davis: Well, I feel like I handled a whopper.
[00:29:19] Caitlin Davis: Our four Ps, number four, Perspicacity. The one duty we owe to history is to rewrite it. Oscar Wilde. In
[00:29:33] Steve Davis: Perspicacity, I just mentioned whoppers, and that's kind of leading into what we're talking about. Although from the other side of town, um, you wanted to talk about three kinds of Quarter Pounder, David.
What's going on in your internal world?
[00:29:47] David Olney: It's one of those really weird ads that's been popping up before podcasts, when I listen to podcasts. And it's for the three kinds of Quarter Pounder at the moment, but you can still have the original.
[00:30:01] McDonalds Ad: How do icons stay relevant? They evolve. And there's nothing like bacon and crispy onions for reinventing yourself. Now you have three icons to try.
[00:30:19] David Olney: And I just thought, what a weird ad. Like, either you want people to come and eat one new exciting thing, or you want them to eat the original thing, but you're telling me there's three versions of a ever so slightly different versions of the same hamburger at a place I don't go? Why should I care? I thought, oh, this is an interesting idea.
Because historically, I remember in the 90s and early 2000s, if there was some variation of a burger on at, you know, Hungry Jack's or at McDonald's, you might go, oh, I better go eat that, because it's only until the end of the month. And they did a better job of FOMO. Mm. The utter failure with this new ad is, there might be something about only for a limited time, but what does only for a limited time mean?
Does it mean I can ignore the ad for another six weeks and still have to suffer through it every week?
[00:31:12] Steve Davis: First of all, it's interesting what your mind picks up on. Secondly, he said that kindly, I do not. Secondly, it did make me think that it's been so long since I've eaten in any of those places with regularity.
You know, the occasional twister from KFC in a hurry will be past muster. Um, however, Just, and I remember back in my radio days, driving and working 24, oh not 24 hours a day, 12 to 13 hours a day. Yes, I would easily slip in, and if I saw that, um, not so much the Big Mac, but one of their other special, they'd have a special McFeast thing, and they'd have one with pineapple and one with beetroot, I would be a sucker for them, because I like having pineapple or beetroot in, and it was great, and I knew it was only brief.
I actually feel like in recently, Hungry Jack's had a The way they positioned this Wagyu bird really piqued my interest. And I had one once. I didn't get the chips, didn't get the coke, I just had the burger, and it was okay, but it wasn't amazing, and even as I was in the drive thru, I felt dirty. I felt, what am I doing?
My life has moved past this, why am I here? Why am I regressing? Um, but I still fell for it, and I think it is just that, well partly, there's The curiosity they hooked me with the curiosity. Novelty.
[00:32:39] David Olney: Yeah, the novelty and a good bit of fomo. But it seems to me that this Quarter Pounder ad didn't have the novelty or the FOMO of the Wagyu at Hungry Jack's that you are describing that did a better job of both by the sound of it.
I
[00:32:53] Steve Davis: think it did. And I think, yeah, the weak thing here, if we're going perspicacious on this, is, in fact, not putting all their chips on the one, put it all on 23 and hope the ball lands on it. Like, come on, the McPhee's Hawaiian burger with pineapple. Go for it. But, to say, oh, but you can still get a normal McPhee's and you
[00:33:11] David Olney: can still get, it's
[00:33:12] Steve Davis: like,
[00:33:13] David Olney: hang on.
Oh, Quarter Pounder. Quarter Pounder. See, we can't even remember what the burger is because who eats a Quarter Pounder?
[00:33:19] Steve Davis: Well, the burgers are better, um, when they stick to what they're meant to be. Oh no, that's not even true. I like a little bit of flourish. So what are we saying? What is the key thing we're saying here with these ads?
If you're going to do it, go in hard or do something totally different. Big
[00:33:36] David Olney: novelty, definite FOMO. Not meh novelty and unclear
[00:33:41] Steve Davis: FOMO. Because that goes right back to the messages we were talking about earlier, um, in, in the last episode with, um, Alan Dibb, make sure there's a clear call to action and that call to action is often amplified when there is a deadline, when it disappears from and that's your your FOMO, fear of missing out.
And make sure you've got a fear of missing out the next episode. Exactly, well I think that one's pretty much an episode with a lot. Do you want fries with that David? Can I have a thick shake too? Sure you can. Mmm, trans
[00:34:16] David Olney: fats.
[00:34:17] Caitlin Davis: Thank you for listening to Talking About Marketing. If you enjoyed it, please leave a rating or a review in your favourite podcast app.
And if you found it helpful, please share it with others. Steve and David always welcome your comments and questions, so send them to podcast at talkedaboutmarketing. com. And finally, the last word to Oscar Wilde. There's only one thing worse than being talked about, and that's not being talked about.