In this episode, Steve and David explore the deep connection between our instinctual, animalistic "wild creature mind" and how it impacts our personal well-being and professional life, and discuss the importance of balancing clever marketing with genuine connection.
In this episode of Talking About Marketing, Steve and David begin by diving into the concept of the "wild creature mind" from Steve Biddulph's latest book, unpacking how our instincts and body signals often guide us before our logical brain catches up.
Moving into the Principles segment, they explore how this awareness can enhance confidence in professional settings, like marketing talks or networking events, by focusing on connection over cleverness.
In the Problems segment, they challenge the old adage "look after the cents and the dollars will take care of themselves," urging small business owners to step back and see the bigger picture.
Finally, in Perspicacity, they dissect H&R Block's quirky tax ad, debating the balance of humour and simplicity in advertising and its relevance to bookkeeping and other industries.
Get ready to take notes!
Talking About Marketing podcast episode notes with timecodes
01:00 Person This segment focusses on you, the person, because we believe business is personal.
Taming the Wild Creature Mind: Embracing Our Animal Instincts
In this episode, the Person segment explores the concept of the "wild creature mind," a term from Australian psychologist Steve Biddulph's latest book, Wild Creature Mind. Steve and David discuss how we've forgotten the animalistic and instinctive side of our nature, which plays a vital role in how we experience and respond to the world. By reconnecting with these instincts, often triggered by the vagus nerve, we can better understand emotions like anxiety, stress, and even joy. These bodily signals help guide us in real-time, long before our conscious mind catches up.
The segment highlights Biddulph’s findings, supported by the latest neuroscience research, which demonstrates that the right side of our brain—non-verbal and sensory—is constantly processing our surroundings. It’s not until the left side funnels these experiences into words that we make sense of them. This shift in perspective, from privileging rational thought to acknowledging physical sensations, can recalibrate how we navigate everything from personal wellbeing to professional interactions.
For small business owners, the takeaway is clear: rather than relying solely on clever words or polished marketing, true connection is forged when we are fully present in our body, comfortable in our surroundings, and responsive to others. Trusting these instincts allows us to operate more effectively and authentically in both business and life.
12:00 Principles This segment focusses principles you can apply in your business today.
From Wild Creatures to Bookkeepers: Connecting Emotion to Value
In this episode's Principles segment, Steve reflects on a recent speaking engagement at the Polaris Centre, where he presented on the "Magic of Marketing." Despite being in a room full of strangers, Steve applied insights from Wild Creature Mind, remaining comfortable by focusing on providing genuine value rather than performing. This shift helped him stay grounded and centred, leading to meaningful connections.
After the talk, two interesting questions arose, which Steve and David use to illustrate important marketing principles. The first question focused on the number of Instagram followers, highlighting the misconception that vanity metrics like follower counts are the key to success. Steve and David stress that engagement is far more important, as it indicates genuine connection and impact—essential for building trust and driving results.
The second question came from a bookkeeper unsure how to make her services seem interesting. Steve's advice reframed her value: rather than focusing on the dry details of bookkeeping, she should emphasise how she lifts the emotional burden from her clients, transforming from a mundane service provider into a hero who delivers peace of mind. By understanding the emotional and physical experience of her clients, the bookkeeper can communicate her value more powerfully and effectively.
18:00 Problems This segment answers questions we've received from clients or listeners.
Looking After the Future, Not Just the Cents
In the Problem segment, Steve and David dive into a common business misconception: focusing too much on the small details while neglecting the bigger picture. Drawing from the old adage, "Look after the cents and the dollars will look after themselves," Steve questions whether this mindset still holds true in modern business. David firmly disagrees, explaining that focusing exclusively on the "cents"—the minor day-to-day details—can lead to missing bigger opportunities and changes in the market.
David highlights that while paying attention to detail is important, it's equally critical to regularly lift your head and assess the broader business landscape. Small refinements only help if you're adjusting to the changing world around you. He argues that if you focus solely on the present, you're at risk of being unprepared for future changes, market shifts, or potential opportunities.
To avoid this trap, David advises business owners to carve out time to reflect on where their industry is heading and how they want their business to grow. Even setting aside just an hour a month to consider future trends and opportunities can lead to significant improvements, helping businesses stay adaptable and making future planning much easier.
21:00 Perspicacity This segment is designed to sharpen our thinking by reflecting on a case study from the past.
Greed, Comedy, and the Quick Fix
In this Perspicacity segment, Steve and David delve into the world of advertising and accountants, highlighting how some firms, like H&R Block, use humour and simplicity to sell their services. The well-known tax company employs a comedic approach to push its "instant refund" service, using an ad that blends absurd situations with the basic human desire to get money quickly. Steve notes that the ad taps directly into our gut instinct: we want the money, and we want it now.
David, however, critiques the ad for its lack of explanation. While the message of getting the pain out of the way quickly resonates, the comedy element feels offbeat rather than genuinely funny. He suggests that adding a playful nod to the boring nature of the task—such as referencing the infamous "blah blah blah"—might improve the comedic value while keeping the ad relatable.
For businesses like bookkeeping, David notes that a similar approach could work. Instead of focusing on the technical details, an ad could target the pain point of dealing with finances and offer a simple solution with a touch of humour. Whether it's "blah blah blah" or a playful jab at how boring bookkeeping is, the goal is to focus on relieving the client's pain, which will resonate deeply.
Transcript This transcript was generated using Descript.
A Machine-Generated Transcript - Beware Errors
TAMP S05E04
[00:00:00] Caitlin Davis: Talking About Marketing is a podcast for business owners and leaders, produced by my dad, Steve Davis, and his colleague at Talked About Marketing, David Olney, in which they explore marketing through the lens of their own four P's, person, principles, problems, and perspicacity. Yes, you heard that correctly.
[00:00:27] Apart from their love of words, they really love helping people, so they hope this podcast will become a trusted companion on your journey in business.
[00:00:40] Steve Davis: David?
[00:00:41] David Olney: Yes. Give me five push ups, go. Oh man, that means I have to get out of the chair, work out if I'm going to hit my head, probably take my boots off, probably take my leather jacket off. Can I just do like little scrunchy things while I'm sitting still? I suppose it's called flexibility and Okay, do that.
[00:00:59] Steve Davis: Well in that case I'll just sit in lotus position with my, you know, my feet over the edge of the chair. Okay, I think we'll just go with that second option. Ow. What you didn't see is before I just did 100 push ups on the floor near you. Did you see any of that?
[00:01:15] David Olney: I did not hear the earth shake, so I am somewhat sceptical.
[00:01:19] Now, listeners, I am not insulting Steve's size or weight, but this is a wooden floor. If he was smashing out push ups, there's gonna be vibration.
[00:01:33] Caitlin Davis: Our four P's. Number one, person. The aim of life is self development. To realise one's nature perfectly. That is what each of us is here for. Oscar Wilde.
[00:01:50] Steve Davis: We have an interesting theme to explore today, and starting in the person segment, I think it's the perfect place to begin with it. About a couple of hours ago, we got a phone call while we were traveling to the studio from Alexandra Lopez, or Ali. She is an awesome vocal coach and voiceover artist, absolutely beautiful, if you hear any of her work, it is just class A, and anyway, she called out of the blue and said, look, I've been getting this idea in my head a number of times and today I couldn't hold it anymore, I rang you up because I think, she said, I think, you know, Your listeners would appreciate you telling a bit of the background story and the rationale as to why you are on a bit of a journey to improve your fitness at the moment.
[00:02:42] That's pretty much sums it up, David.
[00:02:45] David Olney: Yeah, the only thing I would add is that in the car we were kind of referring to it as, Physical well being or well being kind of interchangeably, because if you start working on physical well being, you tend to flow on into other areas of well being.
[00:02:58] Steve Davis: And I think for everyone who listens to this podcast, who would own a business or they're leading a business in particular, uh, there's a lot of stress that comes with that and a lot of demand on time and it just seems the nature of the world now more so than ever before, um, I want to say demands or at least makes us feel like we need to be applying ourselves 24 7, uh, to stay up with things.
[00:03:27] There's just so much that we could be doing, so little time, uh, is, is what it seems. I think, is that a fair reading?
[00:03:34] David Olney: Well, what we were talking about in the car is that it seems like everyone is only a couple of steps away from the point of overwhelm and that none of us went there deliberately or willingly.
[00:03:46] Steve Davis: So, what Ali was particularly keen to hear is, she's been seeing on my social feed, that I've been getting up early, my day has seemed to have shifted to a start between 5 and 6 somewhere, depending on the day of the week, and heading the sack up. A little bit earlier as well, and two mornings of the week is because I go to Fitness Habitat, which is a gym around the corner from me, and I was introduced to you by a mate of mine, Richard Pascoe, the Adelaide Tech Guy, and I do a punishing, David, punishing 40 minute circuit that's different every single time.
[00:04:27] That's Scott, uh, leads us through, but there's a small group of people who are doing this, the regulars that tend to be about 8 to 12 of us, and not a single person there is a gym junkie that is obsessed with their physical manifestation as far as appearance is concerned, they're just good eggs who are coming together, showing a bit of discipline, um, to apply themselves to a fitness regime.
[00:04:55] Why, though, this is where the person segment comes in, because we promised Allie, cause it's what she asked for, to put facade aside and get into the depths of it. And I will say that, um, for many years I saw an exercise physiologist, hello to Max and Nathan at InForm Health, and I did that dutifully, and It was good.
[00:05:17] It kept me alive, kept me functioning. There was always a sense of it being an extrinsic motivation, because I knew the guys, loved them, wanted to support their business, their clients, and I guess David, I was attending out of a sense of duty, more so than a burning internal urge. Ambition,
[00:05:40] David Olney: which really fits with your desire to do the right thing by other people and then think about yourself second.
[00:05:46] So ironically, it's probably very good that you knew an exercise physiologist like Max and you wanted to be helpful because it was good for you even more than it was good for his business. Otherwise, yeah, for all those years, would you have done it without that motivation? Probably not. No, that's if I had to say you would do most things if it's going to help someone before you would help yourself.
[00:06:10] Interesting, and
[00:06:10] Steve Davis: I'm not alone like that either. No. So about 18 months ago, though, the work schedule was so mad that I had to forgo. I gave up my slot that I had there, and so I was just doing some walking and And gradually, I got a fantastic doctor, uh, fantastic GP, and he just started saying, you know what Steve, I think we need to take a bit of action here, let's do some blood tests, which he did, and I won't say too much other than, I could see a horror movie and not be quite as disturbed.
[00:06:48] The readings were off the charts in the wrong way, um, and so that was a bit of a wake up call. Still, not enough to get 100 percent into action. I thought, okay, I will apply myself, um, and see what I can do, start watching what I eat a bit more, et cetera, and keep that walking up. But even that didn't quite get bedded in, and it just needed a flourish of stress, and the wonderful fruits of the South Australian wine industry, uh, every evening.
[00:07:21] Uh, brought some placation, and joy, and comfort, and then it was almost a year ago, it was about November, early December 2023, I was having a lunch with Richard Pascoe, who had mentioned he's been going to the gym, he goes five mornings a week, thank you very much, and he mentioned that a few months earlier, and I didn't want to hear anything about that, but on this particular day, I just had a second round of tests, and boy, We were talking things going south really badly, and I was very despondent, and I said to him, tell me about this gym, and he said, well, here's the deal, come along on a Monday, it's mates free Monday, um, let's give it a crack, you get there at six, um, you warm up, about ten past, you do about half an hour, there's exercises, different cycles, and then you cool down at the end, and I think you'll enjoy it.
[00:08:19] And I did. And for a few months over that summer period I was there, but of course holidays, things get broken, etc. But, for the last three to four months, I've not missed, I go Mondays and Fridays, and I've not missed a Monday or Friday. And I'm noticing that things are on the up and up. I'm on the cusp of going back for the next round of tests to see if the measurements have improved.
[00:08:47] But it wasn't a cancer scare. It wasn't anything big stick. It was putting the two and two together and going, You know what? There is We can see what the future has in store. The future has diabetes in store. It has all sorts of things in store. None of which are attractive. And I also owe it to my daughters and wife to hang around and be more fit, and also my clients to stay sharp.
[00:09:17] So, Ali, that was the prompter to make this happen. A good doctor, who has never been pushy, but he looks at you and he doesn't take BS, but he also says, I'm never going to judge you. I'm never going to say you're lying to me, Steve. I'll just ask you to be honest to me. That's all. It's a wonderful relationship, David.
[00:09:44] It's like, um, all the planets got aligned, but I had to hit that low ebb to say enough is
[00:09:52] David Olney: enough. We stop here. Yeah, because it's always a case you can hear. Really useful information, an awful lot of times, but until you're ready to hear it, and you're ready to take action, you just have to hope you're dealing with patient people who don't browbeat you, because if they do that, then you're going to take even longer to listen.
[00:10:12] Steve Davis: Yeah, that's interesting, because, and, and, and, look, all of this has relevance with marketing too. Richard was perfect. He mentioned what he did, because he was loving it, but he did not push. The GP. Said, we're going to do this out of, you know, scientific curiosity, did not push. He trusted me to
[00:10:30] David Olney: put two and two together.
[00:10:32] And again, just from my practical perspective, it's like I tell people, you know, you can talk to me in the mornings before yoga, you can talk to me after. But if you make me lose that hour, I'm going to be a very sad bunny. So you just get people used to the routine you want in your life. And most people will be really respectful of you looking after yourself.
[00:10:53] And you just learnt the same thing, because people didn't push you towards it. They just kept giving you bits of information that when you were ready, they were all there to put in the right order and take action with.
[00:11:03] Steve Davis: And a good thing also along the way, and I think this has been key, is Scott, who is the fitness trainer, the guy who runs the gym, Uh, You can go your own pace.
[00:11:14] So he'll set the exercises and we all have to do them. But if we need to modify something in a slightly different way, because we don't have that full flexibility. It's, it's that understanding that something is better than nothing. And, It's just encouraging, and I've noticed, in fact, this morning I was there, it's a Friday we're recording on, and one of the exercises in the round of 15 we were doing was a plank, where you have this big rubber ball, you put your elbows down on it, and you lift yourself off the ball, and you should be as straight as a plank.
[00:11:46] You're in a, what, a 35 degree angle from your head area down to your toes, and you hold that for the 30 seconds, or whatever it is, each round. And I did it, and I thought, you know what? When I first started here, that was not possible. That was not possible. I'd either be resting on the ball with my chest, or I would sag after about 10 seconds.
[00:12:11] So I think it's those little realization moments, David, that the change that happens to this sort of thing isn't overnight. I remember James Clear in Atomic Habits talking about the fact that if you've taken years to decay, You can't turn around in a few minutes and expect everything to be put back together again.
[00:12:32] David Olney: No, and I think the other side of this is too that part of the world we live in at the moment is we live so much in language and rush and thinking and we start ignoring our body. And it's by having a physical routine like you've developed now. And the difference between say walking and going to the gym is walking your brain can be busy on things related to the day.
[00:12:54] You're not really enough in your body. But when you're trying to balance on your elbows on a ball, or in my case do a bizarre yoga posture. You have to pay attention to what your body is doing, and the more you're in your body, the more you're aware your body feels better doing this activity than it felt three months ago, than it felt six months ago.
[00:13:14] Steve Davis: It's funny, I had that exact thought this morning, because I, when I walk, I'm playing the mindfulness meditation with Sam Harris, and that is a discipline to try to, not blank your mind, but notice the thoughts as they come, and then watch them disappear, which is great. so much. But this morning, yeah, the body was so focused on surviving this thing, that it really was that blank screen, that sort of Holy grail that you aim for of not being lost in a sweep
[00:13:44] David Olney: of thoughts non stop.
[00:13:45] No, you're just there with your body, and your body is sore but happy. And sore and happy is a great combo. Sore
[00:13:52] Steve Davis: and happy, there you go. Would you go and see them if they were performing to a theatre near you? I reckon they sound like clowns, adult clowns. Sore and happy. I actually think
[00:14:01] David Olney: it's going to be a Norwegian death metal band, so I'm looking forward to it.
[00:14:06] Our four
[00:14:07] Caitlin Davis: Ps. Number two.
[00:14:13] Principles. You can never be overdressed or over educated. Oscar Wilde.
[00:14:24] Steve Davis: Continuing the conversation, but this time in the principles segment, as we were trying to work out how we take this great gift of an idea of conversation from Ali and keep it in line with the fact that this is talking about marketing as well. There were some principles. In fact, David, I'll throw to you because you were coming up with some ideas about that whole well being aspect and how they overlap.
[00:14:48] David Olney: Yeah, this is something to me that is just a very natural thing that I've been aware of for a long time and that is the sooner you can do something preemptive for well being in any aspect of your life, the easier the next hard thing is. And the more you feel that whatever hard things come along, you will be able to roll through them.
[00:15:07] And, you know, as we were sitting in the car talking to Ali, I made the point, this is so much what happens in marketing. We go to people with an idea that now wouldn't take that many resources and that much time that would get them ahead of the curve. And if people are too busy, they often don't take action then.
[00:15:25] They get a bit more worried, things get a little bit more difficult, they get a little bit deeper into the hole in the ground. And from that point onwards It takes more and more effort to get out of the hole and get back on the flat ground and get moving. So really, well being physically, well being mentally, well being in business terms, is about being preemptive and doing things before there's actually a problem.
[00:15:51] When there's just a sign that there's going to be a problem, is when you can get the biggest outcome for the smallest outlay of effort.
[00:16:01] Steve Davis: And I think that's a beautiful point because I think my ebb and flow in getting engaged in persisting with the discipline of two days a week physical routine. Look at some point, uh, I haven't told Scott this but, uh, I'm gonna aim for the third day.
[00:16:17] I'm gonna do the Wednesday as well but I'm in no rush. If I can see eight to twelve months unbroken solid Monday to Friday, I'm exponentially further than I would ever have been on my trajectory. Um, but it is just that it's getting that started and doing those simple things. And I was heartened, um, Colleen, who's one of our clients, who does, um, I guess a form of therapy, um, she did follow the Anzac Day.
[00:16:51] She got herself a simple WordPress website that we developed for her, with her. Um, she has been blogging. We just paid attention to the wording on the website being simple, clear, focused on the needs of her client. And she said to me yesterday, I'm getting heaps of clients. They're finding me. They're coming their way through.
[00:17:13] And she's just, and she's actually been sick for a long time, uh, but the momentum was able just to keep building up because she did the foundations right, and I think whether it's marketing or whether it's your health, it is finding that intrinsic motivation to keep doing the little things that we know are right, even though they don't have massive or even any immediate sense of payoff, but having the faith that doing them one by one will
[00:17:45] David Olney: And that's normally what I've seen happen, and that is that if people do one thing that's good for them or their business, they then do the next thing. Because once you start getting positive endorphins from one thing or the other, you want more. You want more of that sensation of sore but happy. Whether it's in a longer day at work, or going early to gym, or getting up and doing your meditation, or getting up and doing your yoga practice, or at the end of the day going for a walk rather than crashing on the couch.
[00:18:13] And if you're going to crash on the couch, crashing on the couch with a, you know, glass of mineral water rather than a big glass of red. All these little things cumulatively add up to the idea that it will be easy tomorrow. Not easy, but it will be doable tomorrow to do as many positive things again.
[00:18:31] Steve Davis: And actually, I've got to chip in there too, because I did promise Ali that we wouldn't be Happy, clappy about this and make it sound all tinsel in fairyland because there are days on end where the big glass of red is sought out.
[00:18:48] Um, but there's something from the principal's perspective that I thank, um, Max and Nathan from Inform Health drilling into me many, many years ago. They said, look, If you fall off the track, all right? If you have some bad weeks and the intake's suboptimal and the output is suboptimal, here's the thing.
[00:19:11] Dust it off. Start again. Do not let yourself say, well, there you go, it's all doomed, it's never going to happen, throw in the towel. There is just something in the people around you, and you know, we have to practice this too, if we need to chastise someone for not doing their marketing fundamentals, of not being nasty about it.
[00:19:33] So, okay. Haven't done it. Let's just try starting now. I think there's something really important as a fundamental principle there, David. If, if we want people for their own good to be pursuing something, that horrible big stick is counterproductive. Yeah, no shame, no blame. Yes. Let's just get it done. And then, go and see Sore and Happy.
[00:19:56] David Olney: Hmm.
[00:20:02] Caitlin Davis: Our four Ps. Number three, Problems. I asked the question for the best reason possible. Simple curiosity. Oscar Wilde.
[00:20:16] Steve Davis: In the problem segment, I will just highlight one thing as we continue this reflection on fitness. I think a potential problem that has been avoided, and the problem is petering out, uh, and, and not going. To be there and be present for me twice a week, uh, at Fitness Habitat is the fact that unlike when it was just me going to my exercise physiologist appointments, my mate Richard Pascoe is going to be there.
[00:20:50] And I think a big problem that's averted is finding a buddy. And the idea occurs to me about exploring a way that we can help our clients find buddies among themselves too. Of course we're here to be buddies as well. To help keep, have that level of accountability that a buddy brings to the table. It sounds very kindergarten, but it's, I think It is the thing that, in the early days in particular, helped stay at it so that a habit could be forged.
[00:21:26] Now, there've been some weeks when Richard's been travelling, hasn't been there, not been an issue. I'm going. Off my own volition now. Whereas there are a few days early on, where it's 10 o'clock the night before, and you go, Oh, do I want to set the alarm for 5. 09? Do I really want to do that? And then there's Richard's face in my head, and I go, Oh no, I can't live down the barrage of SMS's that I'll get from him, full of, um, cheekiness, let's say, uh, the morning after I miss something, uh, because he's going to give me Uh, the rough pineapple over it, and so that was absolutely critical.
[00:22:06] It also broke the ice. I wasn't going in as a stranger into a room where they're gonna see this guy lumbering his way around over things, and I really think in the problem segment, finding a sojourner to go with you in whether it's the marketing journey or whether it's a, in this case, well being
[00:22:28] David Olney: is key.
[00:22:29] And I'll add a simple concept to this that fits very nicely. I was talking to a colleague in America yesterday, and we just got onto like your meaning of life type stuff as you do once you've done the work because you like talking to nice people. And we were trying to work out like, what's a single sentence that could be used to help people to behave in a way where life would just go better, society would go better, the world would go better.
[00:22:53] And we reached the conclusion that if people just did the following thing. Behave in a way that makes it easy to trust you. Most problems would go away. So what Steve's been doing with his fitness stuff for months now is behaving in a way that makes it easy for his friend Richard to trust him. He's there, he said he would, he did.
[00:23:13] And because we are such social beings, and social proof plays such a big role in our lives and our perception of the things we experience and interact with, if you just behave in a way that makes it easy for people to trust you, guess what? That's going to be really good for you too.
[00:23:32] Steve Davis: There was a small pocket that warmed up first, then a few others warmed up, and I felt there was a growing bond and connection, and there's a lovely trio there, uh, a daughter, her mum, and her auntie, they're there every day, and they're sort of in their little corner of the world.
[00:23:49] But that's been melting, and everyone, I feel, I've been absorbed into the group now, um, and even today, I must say, because I love a good gag, and Scott has a trainee there, and he was getting us, doing our cool down exercises, and he had trouble getting down on his knee, and I said, if you're injured, there's band aids on his knee, sort of white band aids, he said, yes, uh, I was on my bike, and there was a stick that I didn't see.
[00:24:17] And, uh, I said, look, can I just say, because everyone was a little bit underwhelmed by that, so just say it's a trunk, or a branch, like a stick, come on, anyway, he started doing the exercises, and I started doing the wrong one, because he was doing it a different way, and, uh, this, this mum I referred to said, oh, you don't like change, do you, Steve?
[00:24:39] I said, no, no, I think I was still thinking about the stick, and it threw me off. Kaboom! Thank you very much, everyone. Yes. Uh, but you see, this then becomes a lovely payoff, because I've now forged a community around it. But you don't get that instantly, and that's why having at least one buddy there is just a conduit.
[00:25:03] It's that acting, the catalyst to help all the, all the pieces connect with each other.
[00:25:16] Caitlin Davis: Our four Ps, number four. Perspicacity. The one duty we owe to history is to rewrite it. Oscar Wilde.
[00:25:30] Steve Davis: And so in Perspicacity, where we think about thinking, we apply thinking to something, and typically it's older advertising campaigns, and um, of course you can't go past the classic Norm ads, and Life Be In It, um, and they used to have a jingle, you got to find 30, you got to find 30, minutes a day, do doom, do
[00:25:54] David Olney: doom.
[00:25:54] Do you remember that one, David? I remember some part of it, but I always just remember thinking, and this was the point of being me, a kid that thinks too much. Hey, we're being told Life Be In It, and we're sitting inside in front of the TV. So I got the irony even at about age 8 or 9 when I remember the ads starting.
[00:26:12] Well, there was a spoken one. Let's dig them out. Let's have a listen to it.
[00:26:19] Norm: Hi there. I'm Norm. And being a normal Australian, I'm a sportsman. Any sort of sport, I'll be in it. Footy, beauty jazzer, cricket, tennis, golf, trots. I'll be in them all because I'm an all round sportsman. I'm an all round sportsman. There's not many of us left though. Rang the mates this afternoon. Heh, warm the set and cool the tinnies, I said.
[00:26:47] No takers. Tommo said he was taking his dog for a walk. Fred said he was going to mow the lawn. George said he was going for a walk down the park. Dave, Dave o, Dave o said he was taking the family out flying kites. That's beauty Nick. I don't know. Us all round sportsmen are a dying race.
[00:27:17] Steve Davis: You see, what I remember a lot Was when they go through the thing, different things you can do and the voiceover says and Devo, Devo is taking the family out flying kites because it's interesting I now know having spent some time with exercise physiologists that incidental activity is really important you don't have to hop on a treadmill or do a push up you can actually achieve the same sort of dynamic movement in different ways by lifting grocery bags By, by, by just applying yourself in the normal activities of, of life, and of course, Steve Davis, Davo, that, I've got that nickname in, in primary school, thanks to LifeBeInIt.
[00:28:02] But here's the thing, we've got Norm and Norma there, he's on the couch, he gets dragged into things, and LifeBeInIt had the come and, they started the come and try, where you can come and try. kite flying or jogging or whatever, then come and try is still something that I see happen a lot these days. Does this mean, David, that we've, we've discovered an ad for this segment on Persepicacity that actually might pass muster and still maintain relevance some 40, 50 years later?
[00:28:36] David Olney: I actually think it would, and I think the fact that the female character, Norma, is the role the one that gets Norm moving. So it's really an interesting ad from a time where very often, you know, women would have been ignored in an ad. And, you know, I can imagine the ad people would have thought about having a bunch of blokes giving their friend who doesn't play footy a hard time.
[00:28:57] Whereas instead it was actually this message of just, well, I like doing this stuff, come have a go. It was a very positive message. It's an easy phrase to remember. I only occasionally, you know, Sort of do the line of life be in it, and then the thing from chain, train, spotting, choose life and combine them.
[00:29:14] There's plenty of alternatives to move this forward.
[00:29:16] Steve Davis: Well there are, and probably the one thing that I think if the campaign got reborn today, would be a companion app. Because we have With animation. With animation, but also with AI. Because, can you imagine the life be in an app, where you've got Norm there sitting on your phone, or Norma, Um, And you dial it up because you go, Ah, yes, maybe it, maybe it pings you to say Hey, have you got time to do some exercise or do something physical this afternoon or this morning because it would know what time of day and you open it up and it knows the weather where you are, it knows whether it's a Saturday, Sunday or a weekday and it possibly could look at your calendar and know whether you're free or not, um, it would know a bit about you from when you set it up and then it might be able to say, right, it's drizzling this afternoon, you're not going to like going out for a walk, here are you.
[00:30:10] Three exercises you can do on a chair in the dining room, um, and you can tick off some really big ticks. How good would that be, that it could just blend, or it might, even with geo positioning, know that you're in the country or in a national park, and it might ping you and say, hey, you've just arrived at Clearland Wildlife Reserve, have some fun, but, here's something you can do, you know, climb a tree, whatever it might be, uh, maybe not climb a tree, but, how good would that be, that if you had Norma Norma's voice, Norma Norma's voice.
[00:30:43] Armed with AI language to make it you, and flexible, and armed with every bit of data the phone has about you, is a lot more than we care to think about. It could be fantastic, because those suggestions would erode barriers to getting out and moving.
[00:31:02] David Olney: And my guess is people would get a lot less angry at an animated Norm or Norma on their phone or their watch, telling them to move.
[00:31:13] That's actually
[00:31:14] Steve Davis: a good point, because some of the um, language models, we're doing some work with Expert Ease AI at the moment, an Adelaide based, uh, company that's using an Australian large language model. If you go to the Talked About Marketing website, you can have a chat to our assistant, uh, Oscar Wilde.
[00:31:32] He weaves his information. On the spur of the moment, in some beautiful language, and it's quite entertaining. And on the Adelaide Show podcast, where the same chatbot is there, but dressed up differently with different background as Nigel, he comes up with South Australian trivia quizzes, uh, for you on the spot, multiple choice.
[00:31:57] So that would mean that Norm would easily be able to be a bit cheeky. And just roll with the punches, have a bit of fun. That's a good
[00:32:05] David Olney: idea, David. And if you do it really well, you can probably have beer and a Mars bar, because I'm assuming in the 70s, early 80s, that would have been Norm's diet.
[00:32:13] Steve Davis: I think you're right on a Chico roll.
[00:32:15] So look, there we are, something a little bit different, thanks to Ali Lopez asking us that question. Any final thoughts on this? Because I'm also in the back of my mind, have I bared the soul enough to be warts and all? What have I glossed over? What have I, what I haven't shared? Is that it was a really horrible depth of despair that day when I said, I'm just going to do this.
[00:32:39] I was actually feeling very low, too low for zero. It was horrible. It was a really horrible day. Um, and it was the best thing that ever happened to have been experiencing that with a mate, uh, who was doing well. And I think that James Clear talks about in, Atomic habits is surround yourself with people who are heading in the direction that you would like to head And so that certainly paid a dividend there Um, it was really hard Breaking that I used to do breakfast radio a long time ago at 5mu by the way Congratulations, 5MU, they're turning 90 years old this month of recording.
[00:33:17] But that's become easier. It's not even a thing anymore. And I never thought I'd be saying that. It just doesn't bother me. If I set the alarm for 509, not a single problem in the world, even if it's been a heavy night the night before, it's just baked into the DNA. There certainly has been, sometimes, a battle of self conceit.
[00:33:40] Image and self motivation. Not so much these days. See, now it's such a part of
[00:33:46] David Olney: everything. It becomes normal. Again, it becomes a habit. And that's the key thing. The thing I'd add here too is, whether it's you that needs to start looking after your well being or someone else. If it's someone else, support them.
[00:34:03] Don't give them a hard time. They're already giving themselves a hard enough time. A little bit of positive support at the right time is going to have infinitely more positive impact than giving them a hard time all the time. They'll just shut down, stop listening, feel worse, eat more, drink more, do less.
[00:34:22] And two negatives do not make a positive.
[00:34:24] Steve Davis: There you go. I hope there is something valuable here, because it has had a much better payoff of, um, psychological resilience, as well as fitness. My daughter, who's 16, is a mad athlete. She's got a set of biceps on her, but mine are catching up. Like, we will both often do a double check of our biceps development, and, uh, I'm back to the role that I should have of the best biceps in the house, but By golly, hers are really strong, David, so don't get on her bad books.
[00:34:55] I'm glad I don't have to judge this competition. No. Anyway, that's it for now. If you like it, leave a comment. And if the Norwegian death metal band Sore and Happy come to town, we'll shout you a couple of tickets. Group activity. Bring your own chicken.
[00:35:11] Caitlin Davis: Thank you for listening to Talking About Marketing.
[00:35:14] If you enjoyed it, please leave a rating and a comment. Or a review in your favorite podcast app, and if you found it helpful, please share it with others. Steve and David always welcome your comments and questions, so send them to [email protected]. And finally, the last word to Oscar Wilde.
[00:35:35] There's only one thing worse than being talked about and that's not being talked about.